Wow......DCS Blackshark

[mustang60348 2]

OK< was just reading the open letter to the BCS community here

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32860

 

While just about everyone in that thread agrees with ED (no surprise though, because if you don't agree with every word they say you get banned , so the only people left are the FBs).

 

But once again their decision makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

Right now as everyone hovering (pun intended) around the BS release knows, there is a cracked version out. This is a fact, by not releasing the Russian version to the West they are 100% definately losing sales of their product and now they are talking about making the CP/DRM even worse than it was...This means even more lost sales and of course they think that no on will crack this new CP/DRM mechanism like they did the old in in a matter of hours.

 

This comes off to me like a kid stomping his feet and throwing a tantrum... Are they pissed , sure are, they worked hard and their product got cracked quickly. Their 'years of testing' of SF lead to nothing, they pissed off their own community by choosing it, and got nothing in return and instead of simply removing the CP/DRM they are just going to make it worse.

 

I am in the military and I am sure other military folks will have heard this saying that comes to mind

 

"Moral in this place SUCKS, leave is cancelled until Moral improves".

 

 

Perhaps someone can explain to me how they will achieve anything good by making the CP more restrictive. Some have stated in that thread that FC never got cracked....OK, that is a lie...Also, lets assume that it did, perhaps that is because of "Security thru Obscurity".

Edited October 24, 2008 by mustang60348

[razgriz31m 0]

And i think it's not right to give idea that there's a cracked version out,

[FastCargo 412]

That was common knowledge considering the controversy surrounding BS, ED, SF, and CP in general before BS was ever released. Now, providing links where to get such a thing...THAT is a bad idea and most definitely not tolerated here.

 

FastCargo

[mustang60348 2]

That was common knowledge considering the controversy surrounding BS, ED, SF, and CP in general before BS was ever released. Now, providing links where to get such a thing...THAT is a bad idea and most definitely not tolerated here.

 

FastCargo

 

For sure, I would never post a link to this.

 

The point of this post for me was to notify those here of the decision by ED to change the decision to release the Russian version to the West , imho, in complete contravention of logic and common sense.

[mustang60348 2]

ED to me has always been something of a mystery in terms of their 'attitude' towards their customers.

 

This incident in another example of the mind set they have that escapes me.

 

Their attitude towards modding is another one, they seem to way to keep everything very close to the chest, it appears even making people signs agreements just to get the tools....

 

When you look around this genre two the most successfull companies in terms of sales are Microsoft Flight Sim series and of course Thirdwire. Both of which allow you to do just about anything inside their products. As a result they have sold ALOT of copies, and on to the CP thing, while FSX now requires online activation and limitions which suck, Thirdwire has no CP/DRM as far as I know...and while it might be copied alot, it appears that TK has decided to focus on the legitimate customers and more importantly on things he can control and pirated copies of his products isn't something he can ever control.

 

Is it frustrating for the companies who work hard to put these product to have them copied, absolutely for sure, no doubt BUT why implement measures that ONLY (and I can't stress this enough) punish the legitimate customers, it never punishes the pirate. This latest measure they are taking is a prime example of this. The cat is out of the bag, not releasing the Russian version to the west does nothing to put the cat back in the bag and in fact will cost them sales while not increasing the sales of that version to the folks in CIS. If they implement harsher methods in the future it is just more incentive for the crackers to crack it.

[column5 62]

Game developers must live in some sort of alternate reality. There is no DRM known to man that cannot be bypassed or defeated, so the time and money they put into purchasing a DRM product and implementing it is a complete, 100% waste.

[mustang60348 2]

It is unfortunate. A big release like Black Shark marred by controversy and piracy.

 

Well 20mm, the piracy was caused by the 'public' for sure, but the controversy was caused by ED itself. This latest one is a kneejerk reaction to a bad situation by making it worse.

 

Restricting access by the West to the Russian version feels like "PAYBACK" or "REVENGE" to me and come hell or highwater the west isn't getting this version.

 

Jeez, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[mustang60348 2]

Game developers must live in some sort of alternate reality. There is no DRM known to man that cannot be bypassed or defeated, so the time and money they put into purchasing a DRM product and implementing it is a complete, 100% waste.

 

I think you are right especially with ED, they just seem to have a grasp on reality at all. This latest 'decision' seems half baked at best.

 

I think TK has it right, NO DRM that I know of.

 

 

There was a post here the other day about a guy that lost his CD and TK fixed it right up for him, personally I could never see ED doing anything like that, but I could be wrong.

 

I am not 100% convinced thought that modern DRM is about preventing piracy so much as it is about killing the after sale market of which some devs feel they deserve a piece of.

Edited October 24, 2008 by mustang60348

[JediMaster 451]

So, it's already been cracked, but we won't release it to people willing to pay?? I don't get it. What further damage could be caused??

 

I can see the "revamp for the Western release" logic, even if I don't agree with it (because of the afore-mentioned certainty it will be cracked), but why close the barn doors after the livestock left, got killed, was butchered, and is now on your table?

[mustang60348 2]

So, it's already been cracked, but we won't release it to people willing to pay?? I don't get it. What further damage could be caused??

 

I can see the "revamp for the Western release" logic, even if I don't agree with it (because of the afore-mentioned certainty it will be cracked), but why close the barn doors after the livestock left, got killed, was butchered, and is now on your table?

 

QFT

 

I have always used "after the horse has left", but I like yours better. and in this case it is probably more accurate.

 

 

That is why I personally can't see the "revamped Western Logic" thing, because quite frankly you are right, it will be cracked, or perhaps ED still believes that FC was 'cracked'.

Edited October 24, 2008 by mustang60348

[mustang60348 2]

I have been reading the DCS forums about the open letter

 

Of course 99% of the posts are of the type "We love you, Can I have your baby, you did the right thing". Which is of course understandable considering the atmosphere created where descent is immediately dealt with by a quick ban stick. Hell one guy even posted a way for someone in the west to use a method to make it seem as though they are in Russia, he got punted.

 

I just hope that ED doesn't sit back in a week or so, and think "Yup, looked in that open letter thread and we sure did the right thing because everyone agrees with us".

 

Does everyone know the story about the emperors new clothes, this reminds of of that.

Edited October 24, 2008 by mustang60348

[+EricJ 3,929]

That was common knowledge considering the controversy surrounding BS, ED, SF, and CP in general before BS was ever released. Now, providing links where to get such a thing...THAT is a bad idea and most definitely not tolerated here.

 

FastCargo

 

And as a limited beta tester/skin artist, I got ties to ED and Matt pointed to me a topic in the old Ubi Soft forums about it. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on issues, I can't do anything about it. So just to echo FastCargo, it won't be taken lightly fo sho.

 

And mustang.. yeah ED will sit back and say they did the right thing and that would be that. The ED team are an interesting bunch to say the least, but as EvilBivol-1 pointed out, it's their product, they'll do what they feel is necessary. Sure the legit customer suffers, but we all suffer for someone else's stupidity.

[mustang60348 2]

And as a limited beta tester/skin artist, I got ties to ED and Matt pointed to me a topic in the old Ubi Soft forums about it. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on issues, I can't do anything about it. So just to echo FastCargo, it won't be taken lightly fo sho.

 

And mustang.. yeah ED will sit back and say they did the right thing and that would be that. The ED team are an interesting bunch to say the least, but as EvilBivol-1 pointed out, it's their product, they'll do what they feel is necessary. Sure the legit customer suffers, but we all suffer for someone else's stupidity.

 

The problem is that as of now, the legit customer OR more importantly the potential customer is suffering because ED is making a kneejerk decision and is actually making things worse. If they revamp the protection to the point where it is impossible to break (yah right) , the cracked version is out , nothing can be done about that. Pirates will get it, and the customers who would have purchased it will be forced BY ED (my emphasis because now the ball is in their court) to jump thru hoops that they should not have to. After all, the new measures won't stop people from pirating the game as a crack version is already out.

Edited October 24, 2008 by mustang60348

[mustang60348 2]

I think what they (EB) said is that they're going to revamp the whole protection scheme. Not keep it the same as the Russian cracked version. Thus more delays in the product, on both fronts. I am interested in the statement about the demo. What does that have to do with what happened? Other than to keep the interest up.

 

 

yup , that is all it is, to keep the interest up. Funny part is, I can see people using the files (voice, sounds etc) from the demo to make the cracked russian version 100% english.

[WarlordATF 1]

The Russian Version will be in the west within a few weeks, it will only take one tourist to make a copy and bring it back and then the hackers will have there way with it. They are really shooting themselves in the foot over this and it will cost them sales and make piracy even worse for them. Personally it does not matter to me, i prefer airplanes to choppers but its a shame that those who do want to play it will have to deal with something even worse than Starforce.

 

Software will always be pirated, there is always some teenage hacker with nothing better to do and smart enough to figure it out.

 

I can't wait for the day that the hackers start using some of this DRM software to upload a virus back to the DRM Server, it will happen sooner or later and i have a feeling there will be very little sympathy for the DRM company when it happens.

 

I am the guy who TK helped with WOI and i can say it has earned him my respect and i'll buy whatever new releases he comes out with.

 

Don't mistake the tone of this post, I don't agree with ripping off developers, They deserve to be paid for there efforts but i am strongly against Starforce and invasive DRM like it and those that use it kinda deserve a digital kick to the groin IMO.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Funny that they say the Russian version was top priority... There are several English entries in control settings and a bunch of Russian phrases look auto-translated.

[mustang60348 2]

Funny that they say the Russian version was top priority... There are several English entries in control settings and a bunch of Russian phrases look auto-translated.

 

 

And of course the Russian stuff uses files that are readily editable because they are not built in to the game.

 

The Russian Version will be in the west within a few weeks, it will only take one tourist to make a copy and bring it back and then the hackers will have there way with it. They are really shooting themselves in the foot over this and it will cost them sales and make piracy even worse for them. Personally it does not matter to me, i prefer airplanes to choppers but its a shame that those who do want to play it will have to deal with something even worse than Starforce.

 

Software will always be pirated, there is always some teenage hacker with nothing better to do and smart enough to figure it out.

 

I can't wait for the day that the hackers start using some of this DRM software to upload a virus back to the DRM Server, it will happen sooner or later and i have a feeling there will be very little sympathy for the DRM company when it happens.

 

I am the guy who TK helped with WOI and i can say it has earned him my respect and i'll buy whatever new releases he comes out with.

 

Don't mistake the tone of this post, I don't agree with ripping off developers, They deserve to be paid for there efforts but i am strongly against Starforce and invasive DRM like it and those that use it kinda deserve a digital kick to the groin IMO.

 

 

Are you referring to the updated version OR the one that was released last week, if so, it is already cracked and 'in the wild'.

[WarlordATF 1]

Are you referring to the updated version OR the one that was released last week, if so, it is already cracked and 'in the wild'.

 

The new version will probably be 'in the wild' within a few weeks of its release, was what i should have said. Some hacker somewhere will look at cracking it as a challenge and we have seen how fast they can work.

[+EricJ 3,929]

The problem is that as of now, the legit customer OR more importantly the potential customer is suffering because ED is making a kneejerk decision and is actually making things worse. If they revamp the protection to the point where it is impossible to break (yah right) , the cracked version is out , nothing can be done about that. Pirates will get it, and the customers who would have purchased it will be forced BY ED (my emphasis because now the ball is in their court) to jump thru hoops that they should not have to. After all, the new measures won't stop people from pirating the game as a crack version is already out.

 

And my point is, that customers are suffering because it was easy to hack. Me personally I've had issues with SF and even tech support in getting SF working. But overall they're sticking to their guns regardless. Russian stubborness man, you just can't sometimes win. And more than likely, nobody expected it either.

[JediMaster 451]

The other thing is there are other CP schemes out there that are less controversial, but they didn't go that way.

It's almost like they WANTED to use SF and only something MASSIVELY negative was going to sway them, like getting a Republican to vote Democrat or vice versa.

[mustang60348 2]

The other thing is there are other CP schemes out there that are less controversial, but they didn't go that way.

It's almost like they WANTED to use SF and only something MASSIVELY negative was going to sway them, like getting a Republican to vote Democrat or vice versa.

 

That was my thinking as well, that COME HELL OR HIGH WATER, they were going to use SF. I don't think they expected it to be cracked/hacked so fast. Though I am not sure why they would think that because it uses the same version as a bunch of other games out there that have all been cracked.

 

What I also find strange that there is the story out there that Flaming Cliffs was not cracked. That is wrong. I know, I bought FC and got sick and tired of having to register, run out of activations and have to contact them when I need new ones (yes, I upgrade and screw around with my machine alot), so I got a crack for it (hope that doesn't break any rules here, @mods, if so I will remove this portion of the post) and got rid of this annoying feature of FC.

 

BTW, another strange note about CP that is out there, I installed SP3 of Windows XP, several games that use a hardware check failed after installing SP3 and I had to re-activate after that. I did not change any hardware but it appears SP3 changes the way that windows 'sees' this hardware as though it is new.

Edited October 27, 2008 by mustang60348

[+EricJ 3,929]

The other thing is there are other CP schemes out there that are less controversial, but they didn't go that way.

It's almost like they WANTED to use SF and only something MASSIVELY negative was going to sway them, like getting a Republican to vote Democrat or vice versa.

 

Which... is how ED works.. If it's a small roar, they don't really bother. A LOUD one... and they listen.

[JediMaster 451]

I'm not sure that's the best way to do things.

"We'll do what we want unless enough people complain loud enough to make us change our minds" instead of "figure out what the customers are most interested in and serve that need."

[mustang60348 2]

I'm not sure that's the best way to do things.

"We'll do what we want unless enough people complain loud enough to make us change our minds" instead of "figure out what the customers are most interested in and serve that need."

 

 

The 'un'fortunate part of software development is that there are times when DEVS believe their own hype, just like other companies. On their own forums (not just ED) they have a large group of people telling them that "YOU ARE GODS, I LOVE YOU and I want to have your baby" and they assume that this is the way everyone feels, without naming anyone in particular , there are also forums that don't allow any kind of negative posts about a particular product, so again the company thinks that everything is great.

 

The thing I hate about game devs as a whole and as an industry is that too many people think that the devs are doing them a favour by developing this particular game. Black Shark is especially bad because of the limited genre and unfort ED thinks (and is backed up by those who will do it) they can shovel anyting out to the simming public and they will buy it. This isn't too say that BS isn't a great sim, becuause I don't know as I don't have it. BUT protecting it via SF , a much maligned and much hated CP system, just goes to show how little ED cares about the gaming fans that they are trying to attract. Never in my history of gaming have I wanted a game to be cracked in the first hours of release, just to show ED that they are completly wasting their money.

 

When you look at their reaction to the pirated copy of BS that is going around, they are actually cutting off their nose to spite their face. They are preventing people from actually buying the game outside of CIS. Now I could understand if they stopped selling it all over the world , but they are not. So what this means is that the rest of the world will copy the program instead of buying the Russian Version. This too me smacks of "I am taking my ball and going home" behaviour.

[+DoctorQuest 107]

It's all kind of moot to me since I'm not really interested in anything produced by ED. I have, after much effort, gotten LOMAC (no FC, thank you) running fairly decently on my modest (but well within LOMAC box recommeded specs) rig. I really wanted this sim and I was bound and determined to get it running.

 

Spare me the "never believe the specs" speeches, please. Been there, done that.

 

ED can do anything they please. The market will judge whether the decisions were correct. They have not been, nor are they, the only game in town much less saviors of the genre.

 

I, too, have had no problems with SF, but I'm just not a big fan of CP in any form.

 

Pretty good discussion here.