Jump to content


Photo

The Terrain Editor Thread


  • Please log in to reply
73 replies to this topic

#1 Wrench

Wrench

    Known As Bob.

  • ADMINISTRATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 21,600 Posts

Posted 19 December 2008 - 02:49:55 PM

Ok folks, as promised, this here a new thread JUST on "How To's" for using the Terrain Editor.

This thread has several pruposes, first and foremost on the PROPER use of the TE, and what to do to make those necessary tweeks and twiddles to get things looking the way we want them to.

This thread is NOT designed to be used for 'whats it the works' or questions NOT pertaining to the operation of the TE. Those posts WILL be deleted. I do not want this Thread to get derailed with unnecessary BS.

Keep it tight, conscise, and focused.

We have Gepard's excellent tutorials in the Knowledge Base that gets us started...now, lets focus on the more arcane rituals performed to get that map in-game and looking the way we want.

We have some very learned Terrain Gurus here; let's get together and see what we can create. Once we've amassed the data and information, this entire thread will be moved into the Knowledge Base for all to make use of.

Thank you one and all!!

Wrench
kevin stein
Terraformer Extraordinaire
Making the Game Look Like the Real World ™ Since 2007
"We are the Princes of the Ini-verse"
"A little bit of something, is better than a whole lot of nothing"

 

Dat banned achievment


#2 Wrench

Wrench

    Known As Bob.

  • ADMINISTRATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 21,600 Posts

Posted 19 December 2008 - 03:03:19 PM

Now, this question, I'm sure would probably fall into the "Experienced" category...meaning amatures like can get rapidly over their heads and badly frustrated..

I'm going to start this off with the 'tsunami' questions; wherein we deal with the creeping up of the ocean vertically onto the sea/land transition tiles. Also with the odd "humping up" of the ocean that sometimes accompanies the flatten airfeild function, when said airfield is too close the water, as in my Mariana and Hawaiian Islands maps.

Is there a proper order of things, with which to prevent or remove this effect?

Meaning: you've got your citislst.in, with areaXXX HasAirfield=TRUE
Do you 'flatten airfield' first, THEN "smooth", adjust sea level then "SAVE ALL", and check in game for the proper flattness and sea level?
OR do you adjust the heightfield smoothing, adjust sea level, THEN flatten the airfeild?

Does the radius distance of the airfield zone effect the sea level, as I seem to be seeing (or more properly phrased, HOW does it effect this?)

As an example;

[City010]
Name=NAS Kanehoe
TextureType=3
Randomness=0
PositionX=432.000000
PositionY=424.000000
Width=4.000000 <--
Height=5.000000<--
HasAirfield=TRUE


We know the distance is in KM, radiused out from the 0,0 point of the main coordinates. But how short a distance can we get away with?

because this airfield is literaly 'on the beach', it creates a massive upwelling of the surrounding sea. Going back into the TE and using the "adjust sea level", creates a cliff which the airfield is hanging off of.
Here's some screenies to illustrate what I'm seeing in game:

north shore, nice and smooth (sorta)

Posted Image

Rotating our view 180 degs, looking toward Ewa and beyond, we have this:

Posted Image

Going around the island, to Kanehoe...there's an interesting 'water fall'...

Posted Image

Wrench
kevin stein
Terraformer Extraordinaire
Making the Game Look Like the Real World ™ Since 2007
"We are the Princes of the Ini-verse"
"A little bit of something, is better than a whole lot of nothing"

 

Dat banned achievment


#3 SidDogg

SidDogg

    ...just another Helo MF'er.

  • +MODDER
  • Political Arena, U.S. NAVY
  • 1,465 Posts

Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:17:25 PM

Now, this question, I'm sure would probably fall into the "Experienced" category...meaning amatures like can get rapidly over their heads and badly frustrated..

I'm going to start this off with the 'tsunami' questions; wherein we deal with the creeping up of the ocean vertically onto the sea/land transition tiles. Also with the odd "humping up" of the ocean that sometimes accompanies the flatten airfeild function, when said airfield is too close the water, as in my Mariana and Hawaiian Islands maps.

Is there a proper order of things, with which to prevent or remove this effect?

Meaning: you've got your citislst.in, with areaXXX HasAirfield=TRUE
Do you 'flatten airfield' first, THEN "smooth", adjust sea level then "SAVE ALL", and check in game for the proper flattness and sea level?
OR do you adjust the heightfield smoothing, adjust sea level, THEN flatten the airfeild?

Does the radius distance of the airfield zone effect the sea level, as I seem to be seeing (or more properly phrased, HOW does it effect this?)

As an example;



We know the distance is in KM, radiused out from the 0,0 point of the main coordinates. But how short a distance can we get away with?

because this airfield is literaly 'on the beach', it creates a massive upwelling of the surrounding sea. Going back into the TE and using the "adjust sea level", creates a cliff which the airfield is hanging off of.
Here's some screenies to illustrate what I'm seeing in game:

north shore, nice and smooth (sorta)


Rotating our view 180 degs, looking toward Ewa and beyond, we have this:


Going around the island, to Kanehoe...there's an interesting 'water fall'...



Wrench
kevin stein


...homey.

DO NOT ADJUST THE SEA LEVEL.

From experience, that simply seems to just fill all water with terrain... :no:

The Key is to take a GOOD LOOK at the vicinity of the airfield's spot...

...look for the LOWEST elevation.

THEN flatten the airfield.

otherwise, failure to payattention to the lowest elevation can result in "plateaus"

...sort of the kind that produced your waterfall.... :ok:

Sid.
AT1 (AW)


" ...May God have mercy upon my enemies. Because I won't..."
 

- G.S.P.


#4 Brain32

Brain32
  • +MODDER
  • Political Arena
  • 2,967 Posts

Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:48:06 PM

Well I had huge problems with that, airfields wouldn't get perfectly flat and that was kicking my nuts.
This is how I do it, first I tile "raw terrain" when I'm perfectly happy with the way terrain is tiled and plan to make NO other changes regarding tiles - then I do the HFD work.
First thing I do is airfield flatening, but once I apply it, I save the whole thing exit TE and backup flattened terrain, AFTER that I apply smoothing and finally adjust the sea level.
The thing is when you press "adjust sea level" it cuts a small part of coast which effectively becomes 0m height, that's why it's importan for the terrain to be already fully tiled, if you tile after adjusting SL, the autotiling will ofcourse apply the rule that sea texture is at 0m and you will have the same problem(sea mountains) all over again not to mention inaccurate coast/terrain loss.

Hope this helps.

#5 Wrench

Wrench

    Known As Bob.

  • ADMINISTRATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 21,600 Posts

Posted 20 December 2008 - 01:28:11 PM

Which is pretty much how I did it...tiled first, placed airfield, checked position in-game, backed up TFD and HFD (I've got like 8 or 10 backedup!), then back in and flattened the airfields -- EXCEPT, I didn't do the smoothing, then adjusted sea level.
Although, I've did do it several times afterwards ..

So, am I screwed?? Meaning, having to start from a fresh retile withOUT the flattening and etc? How would this effect targets placements? It shouldn't, right?? :dntknw:

Wrench
kevin stein
Terraformer Extraordinaire
Making the Game Look Like the Real World ™ Since 2007
"We are the Princes of the Ini-verse"
"A little bit of something, is better than a whole lot of nothing"

 

Dat banned achievment


#6 Brain32

Brain32
  • +MODDER
  • Political Arena
  • 2,967 Posts

Posted 20 December 2008 - 01:43:51 PM

No if that airfield is the only thing that bothers you, there's two things you can do:
a) export the .hfd as .bmp and edit it
b) simply adjust the tiles manually to suround the sea mountain

#7 EricJ

EricJ

    Somebody

  • ELITE MEMBER
  • 8,289 Posts

Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:37:48 PM

I got a q, can you extend "The Wall" on maps? I've been hankering to check out the water SW of the ANW map, and was wondering if it can be extended so I can check that out..

http://amzn.to/1yPjFYe | http://562.50megs.co.../GameResume.pdf

Steam ID: EricJ562 | DCS A-10A/C Pilot | DCS Su25T Pilot | SF2 F/A-8F Driver | DACT Instructor | Texture Artist

"...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers

'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the shit sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army

 


#8 Guest_pfunkmusik

Guest_pfunkmusik
  • GUESTS

Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:50:02 PM

OK, on the coastline airfield thing, what I generally wind up doing is going back and filling in the area that is inclining upwards. Yeah, the coastline isn't 100% correct, but it looks better than it did. After you fill it in, just replace the .tfd file with the new one.

I know of no way to extend 'The Wall'. Wish it could be taken directly to the edge of the terrain.

#9 EricJ

EricJ

    Somebody

  • ELITE MEMBER
  • 8,289 Posts

Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:57:30 PM

Damn, okay thanks!

http://amzn.to/1yPjFYe | http://562.50megs.co.../GameResume.pdf

Steam ID: EricJ562 | DCS A-10A/C Pilot | DCS Su25T Pilot | SF2 F/A-8F Driver | DACT Instructor | Texture Artist

"...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers

'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the shit sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army

 


#10 Guest_pfunkmusik

Guest_pfunkmusik
  • GUESTS

Posted 24 December 2008 - 02:21:01 PM

Here's what I mean.

This is from my new WOI terrain of North Africa/Southern Med. This is a shot of the old Malta.

Posted Image

The coastline is creeping up, so I go into the TE...

Posted Image

I fix it, adding some new tiles and work on the coastline...

Here's what it looks like after I'm done. No terrain height field data smoothing or leveling needed, just replace the .tfd file with the new one after finishing your work.

Posted Image

pfunk

#11 Wrench

Wrench

    Known As Bob.

  • ADMINISTRATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 21,600 Posts

Posted 24 December 2008 - 02:29:01 PM

But don't you loose the 'real world' coastline outline that way?? In this, the coasline at Kanehoe Bay is not correct, due to the lack to detail, but I'd like to keep it ( the bay outline) as close as possible

I think what I have is an extreamly "odd" case, as there's no other map, and no other airfield that's, literally, at the water's edge. It being a seaplane base and all...

To me, for fixing MY issues (other than several million dollars worth of therapy....) sounds more like HFD editing....which I ain't exactly very clear on. Yet :wink:

Wrench
kevin stein
Terraformer Extraordinaire
Making the Game Look Like the Real World ™ Since 2007
"We are the Princes of the Ini-verse"
"A little bit of something, is better than a whole lot of nothing"

 

Dat banned achievment


#12 Guest_pfunkmusik

Guest_pfunkmusik
  • GUESTS

Posted 24 December 2008 - 02:42:04 PM

You do, but I'm more of a 'that's close enough' kind of guy. It's not 100% correct, but it's pretty close given the parameters we have to work with in terms of the Terrain Editor and the existing tilesets.

pfunk

#13 Lexx_Luthor

Lexx_Luthor

    Lord of the Analog!

  • ELITE MEMBER
  • 3,375 Posts

Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:52:40 PM

You do, but I'm more of a 'that's close enough' kind of guy. It's not 100% correct, but it's pretty close given the parameters we have to work with in terms of the Terrain Editor and the existing tilesets.

pfunk

You *should* get 4x hfd detailing by dropping height field and tile res to 1km, and greatly reduce the coastline errors. I've never tried that, but I'm sure WW1 sim does something like that to bring out flat French terrain. I do however raise my hf/tile res to 4km because I deal in Cold War size strategic maps, and this helps framerates since I use Horizondistance on the order of 200km for high altitude flying -- on ATI-9200.

The Great Wall: In FlightEngine, in pre-WoI 2006 game levels, you can make the "wall" zero or even negative (Border=, in meters) and freecam well beyond the map edge. But if you get closer than twice the DetailMeshSize= (in km!) to the north/south map edge you dump to desktop. There is a white abyss beyond the north/south map edge that only I have seen. Posted Image Freecam east/west of the map, you see the map repeats forever, but the height mapping gets messed up at low levels. AI does not fully perform combat ops beyond the map edge, but they do fly. Offmap AI waypoints have to be set manually in mission text file.

This all changes in WoI/Patch2008 so now you dump to desktop before you get into a position to see the map edge...ie...I'm guessing cam distance to map edge is less than horizon distance...but that's just a guess. I dumped Patch 2008 fast and don't care anymore.

That's what I figured anyways. Something like that.
Sent from my IBM Model M using recoil numpad, no silencer

#14 Guest_pfunkmusik

Guest_pfunkmusik
  • GUESTS

Posted 24 December 2008 - 09:52:27 PM

Hey, guys, I just extracted the FlightEngine.ini file in WOI and moved 'The Wall' damned near to the edge of the map without a CTD using Lexx's advice.

pfunk

#15 Lexx_Luthor

Lexx_Luthor

    Lord of the Analog!

  • ELITE MEMBER
  • 3,375 Posts

Posted 24 December 2008 - 10:13:18 PM

Please poast that you can see the great White Abyss? Nobody believes me. :grandpa: :crazy:
Sent from my IBM Model M using recoil numpad, no silencer

#16 Guest_pfunkmusik

Guest_pfunkmusik
  • GUESTS

Posted 24 December 2008 - 10:25:32 PM

Please poast that you can see the great White Abyss? Nobody believes me. :grandpa: :crazy:


It's actually kinda wierd. It looks a little like reflective tape on the surface.

Anyhow, I can now move The Wall. That's nice.

pfunk

#17 Major Lee

Major Lee

    Map Daddy of Dhimar

  • +MODDER
  • Political Arena
  • 810 Posts

Posted 25 December 2008 - 01:05:33 AM

Flatten first, then tile...
"Can he ever be young again, or was his youth used up in the cockpit of his beloved Thunderbolt?"
Major Lee's Aerodrome
Posted Image

#18 EricJ

EricJ

    Somebody

  • ELITE MEMBER
  • 8,289 Posts

Posted 25 December 2008 - 09:59:36 AM

Hey, guys, I just extracted the FlightEngine.ini file in WOI and moved 'The Wall' damned near to the edge of the map without a CTD using Lexx's advice.

pfunk


Nice.

http://amzn.to/1yPjFYe | http://562.50megs.co.../GameResume.pdf

Steam ID: EricJ562 | DCS A-10A/C Pilot | DCS Su25T Pilot | SF2 F/A-8F Driver | DACT Instructor | Texture Artist

"...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers

'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the shit sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army

 


#19 Dave

Dave

    Lunatic At Large

  • +FOUNDER
  • U.S. AIR FORCE
  • 25,072 Posts

Posted 05 January 2009 - 08:36:43 AM

Moved to the Knowledge Base.

davebar.jpg
 

Digital Storm Vanquish II Level 4

3.2GHz Intel Core i5-4570 (4 cores, 6MB cache, w/3.6GHz with Turbo Boost)
120GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
250GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD

1TB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 
16 GB 1600MHZ DDR3 RAM
X3 Samsung 27in monitors
Razer Tartarus Chroma
Razer Black Widow Chroma
Razer Diamondback Chroma
Razer Kraken Chroma
Razer Firefly Chroma

 


#20 hgbn

hgbn
  • +MODDER
  • Political Arena
  • 3,504 Posts

Posted 16 February 2009 - 11:26:26 AM




How large can a terrain be??? without getting to trouble

I was thinking something like this
Mojn

Henrik

Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests