SU-30KN vs. F-15A

[vince269 0]

hey guys, new guy here on the forums.

 

i want to get help about evading the AIM-7 sparrows and AIM-120's of the F-15's on WOI. Ive been having trouble lately on evading them. I tried to throw as many chaffs as i could but no luck. i tried also pointing the back of my plane on -15 degrees so that the missile would catch the chaffs and still no luck at this.

 

any ideas?

[Cali 6]

Put the F-15's in a beam, how far are they firing them from you? You could always turn and burn, but that would leave you defensive. Snake the missiles side/side or up/down while dumping chaff.

[vince269 0]

Put the F-15's in a beam, how far are they firing them from you? You could always turn and burn, but that would leave you defensive. Snake the missiles side/side or up/down while dumping chaff.

 

earlier my enemy was a F-15C Baz AUP. He while I was about 100km infront of him (we were facing each other at that time) but i don't know whts the equivalent range of that into miles. He fired an AMRAAM at me and i breaked hard left then dumped some chaffs, but i wasted all of my chaffs still my RWR is still on the missle lock tone. btw i have not equipped my SU-30KN with Gardeniya ECM pods at that time.

[Lucas Chamorro 0]

earlier my enemy was a F-15C Baz AUP. He while I was about 100km infront of him (we were facing each other at that time) but i don't know whts the equivalent range of that into miles. He fired an AMRAAM at me and i breaked hard left then dumped some chaffs, but i wasted all of my chaffs still my RWR is still on the missle lock tone. btw i have not equipped my SU-30KN with Gardeniya ECM pods at that time.

Fire at him then hug the ground and launch some chaff the F-15 has lookdown/shootdown but I think that the ground clutter is still safe, dodge the missile with hard turns and watch your speed (don't stall, certain death at low alt).

 

1mile make 1.6km so 100km are more or less 66miles (100miles=160km)

 

 

 

[Cali 6]

Ground clutter messes up all radars, one bad thing about flying low is your missiles range has now been decreased. You should be able to maintain a very good lock on him since he is above you. This tactic can work, you just have to know how to do it correctly. Like Lucas said, make turns that'll bleed some speed off the incoming missile...and watch the ground! Load ECM pods up next time that will help. What is the burn through for his radar on you with ECM on? You could fly with your ECM on, but then you run the risk of a HOJ shoot in da face.

[Lucas Chamorro 0]

Ground clutter messes up all radars, one bad thing about flying low is your missiles range has now been decreased. You should be able to maintain a very good lock on him since he is above you. This tactic can work, you just have to know how to do it correctly. Like Lucas said, make turns that'll bleed some speed off the incoming missile...and watch the ground! Load ECM pods up next time that will help. What is the burn through for his radar on you with ECM on? You could fly with your ECM on, but then you run the risk of a HOJ shoot in da face.

 

What is an HOJ?

[JediMaster 451]

Home on jam. The missile forgoes using a radar lock and instead locks onto the ECM emissions of the target.

[vince269 0]

Home on jam. The missile forgoes using a radar lock and instead locks onto the ECM emissions of the target.

 

lol thats why when I used my MiG-29 i shoot a F-16 with AA-10 Alamo it homed on the ECM emission. lol.

[wahubna 0]

I agree, ECM pods are not always the best option in real modern aircombat since it is an active system. Typically the radar jammers use false signals to either overwhelm the enemy radar or put false signals in through the radar's "sidelobs" to fool the radar computers into dumping the real target and accepting the false signals. As far as avoiding the missles, stay fast. A typical AAM's rocket motor only burns for like 3 seconds some only 1. So at 100km which is at the limit of the real AMRAAM, stay fast and perpindicular to the missle. High speeds at long range severly limit a AAM's or even a SAM's affective kill envelope. staying low will benefit (in reality) the missles maneuver ability. During the last usually 10nm a missle like the AMRAAM will switch to its own radar for the kill and by that point its using its fins to manuever which need air flow. So high altitude, high speed, and forcing the missle to turn the most will defeat it, chaff cant hurt...Might be way to much information, but hey, i like overkill!

[JediMaster 451]

Another issue is that so-called "noise jamming" where ECM just floods the bands with noise is outdated. It can be burned-thru fairly easily with enough power/range. That's why "deception jamming" is where ECM is at, but no flight sim models this because I suppose "details are classified." It's a simple enough concept though...if you can't prevent the enemy from seeing you, just make him see you somewhere other than where you really are! Missiles fly out to where they think your plane is, but when they get there you're miles away.

Even HOJ won't be useful in that instance. Yet we're stuck with 60's era jamming techniques only.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Another issue is that so-called "noise jamming" where ECM just floods the bands with noise is outdated. It can be burned-thru fairly easily with enough power/range. That's why "deception jamming" is where ECM is at, but no flight sim models this because I suppose "details are classified." It's a simple enough concept though...if you can't prevent the enemy from seeing you, just make him see you somewhere other than where you really are! Missiles fly out to where they think your plane is, but when they get there you're miles away.

Even HOJ won't be useful in that instance. Yet we're stuck with 60's era jamming techniques only.

 

 

Hm, actually, I think deceptive jaming can be implemented in a sim, just not Strike Fighters. It could be used when activated, the sim generates a copy of the aircraft (albeit visually invisible) that activated it, but has it flying on a fixed course at the time when it was first activated. So if the real aircraft were to turn away, it would leave it's copy behind to be intercepted by the missile that it was fired upon.

[JediMaster 451]

I agree, I think it could be implemented to some extent. However, no developer is willing to do it so far.

[macelena 1,070]

Put the F-15's in a beam

 

 

How to, exactly? Radar Love is not my speciality, exactly

[Cali 6]

How to, exactly? Radar Love is not my speciality, exactly

 

Get lower and put the bandit at your 3 or 9 o'clock. This also makes a missile fired at you traveler farther and makes it harder to hit you. It also reduces the engagement zone for the bandits missiles. If you do it correctly you should drop off his radar.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Cali

[macelena 1,070]

Get lower and put the bandit at your 3 or 9 o'clock. This also makes a missile fired at you traveler farther and makes it harder to hit you. It also reduces the engagement zone for the bandits missiles. If you do it correctly you should drop off his radar.

 

 

Thanks, i will remember that

[Cali 6]

No problem, hope it helps you out.

[maverickski 0]

I have no problems in avoiding SAHM and AHM missiles, the most difficult thing is to avoid IRM, mainly Phyton III, AIM-9X and IRIS.

 

Well, the only problem I have is to launch BVR missiles. they do not lock onto the enemy aircraft unless they are 5.5 miles close... The same distance I need to launch an IRM missile!!!!, so there is no difference, I´m very dissapointed

 

about it ´cause I have AIM-54, AA-9, etc, etc available, but still I can´t use them, help, pleaseeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

[Rapadelic 0]

I have no problems in avoiding SAHM and AHM missiles, the most difficult thing is to avoid IRM, mainly Phyton III, AIM-9X and IRIS.

 

 

5th generation IRM's are impossible to evade...if you look at their stats with the weapon editor you will see they all have 60+ G's manuverability (at least) and they all have flare resistance set to 100, that means,they are immune to flares. It makes for really hectic dogfights, and given the fact that every shot is 99% guaranteed kill, it kinda all comes down to luck....if you don't get shot at your wingmen will get shot at and they will die,meanwhile you are free to shoot them down,but if you are the first to get shot at....i don't know...i still haven't managed to outmanuver the 70 g's AIM-9X

[Fubar512 1,350]

Rumor has it that the AIM-9X has signature recognition, so flares will not spoof it.

[Vampyre 24]

The AIM-9X has an Imaging Infra Red seeker which means that it locks on to the image of its target and therefore cannot be spoofed by flares. The real one also has capability against surface targets as well.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=aim-9x%20imaging&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdefense-update.com%2F20110920_raytheon-aim-9x-block-ii-airair-missile.html&ei=EFuFTu6NDo7RiAKx3vynDA&usg=AFQjCNE5RUNdCFDtPMMFojfTVYoKwAaFww

[Derk 265]

The AIM-9X has an Imaging Infra Red seeker which means that it locks on to the image of its target and therefore cannot be spoofed by flares. The real one also has capability against surface targets as well.

 

http://www.google.co...FojfTVYoKwAaFww

 

....so old fashioned flying into clouds may help again ???

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

[matthewfang 0]

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