How not to help someone...

[FastCargo 412]

Folks, I've been seeing a trend lately of so-called help being anything but.

 

There are people who come to us with a problem looking for help, but the 'help' has been causing more harm than good.

 

I'm talking about folks answering without thinking or doing the research first. Giving folks answers that may damage their installs, or at least cause them to waste their time in frustration. Or answers that are rambling, incoherent, or have nothing to do with the problem at hand. And it also tends to be the same people doing it over and over. This is especially problematic for those looking for answers where English is not their primary language.

 

So, I'm going to suggest some ground rules...for both the person asking a question and the person answering the question.

 

First, for the person asking:

 

1) Flight sim communities in general tend to be a more mature crowd. What that means is that we expect to read full sentences, paragraphs, proper punctuation and capitalization. If you cannot be bothered to make the attempt to make yourself understood in a logical manner, we cannot be bothered to sort through the mess that is your post to help you. Yes, that includes folks for whom English is not a primary language. Most of us have been around long enough to know the difference between a person who is trying hard to make themselves understood and those who aren't...no matter what language they are translating from. We can also tell the difference between the occasional gaff (one of us is a notoriously bad speller...ahem) and someone who is not trying at all. 'L33T' speak may work in the ADD addled, 10-year old, spastic bunny hopping world of the FPS on your PS3, but it will not get you far here.

 

2) Please use Google, the search function here, and the Knowledge Base before you post. In addition, be familiar with your computer. Be familiar with the sim...I can't tell you how many times folks have had to answer the question about key assignments because someone couldn't be bothered to click Customize under the Options, Controls screen. Know what the heck Notepad, directories, files are. A PC is not a XBox 360, nor is it a MAC. They come in all shapes and sizes and operating systems. These series of sims have been around 6 years, with freeware mods almost as long. The sims, computers, and operating systems have constantly evolved, and mods released a long time ago may not work in current iterations of the sim. Being computer phobic will not help you here at all...remote tech support is a PITA, especially when those providing it are doing so on their free time.

 

3) After all that, if you still have not solved your problem, then post here in the proper location in the Forum (ie The Pub or the Knowledge Base is NOT the place to post your issue). State your computer specifications, what operating system, which sim you have and what patch level it's at. Specify if you are running any mods. Detail specifically what the problem you are seeing is and what factors you have checked, what troubleshooting you have done, what searches you have ran. The more information you post (screenshots can help), the sooner folks can narrow down what the problem is and help you.

 

4) Finally, if you get your problem solved, provide feedback and thank the folks that helped you. One, it's polite, and two, it may just help the next person who has your problem of being able to help themselves.

 

 

Second, for the person wanting to help:

 

1) The rule about using coherent language applies here too. If you do not do the skull sweat to make your answer as readable and as understandable as possible, the translation filters the asker may be using may not be able to make any sense of what you are trying to say. Keep your answer short and to the point...any extras keep out of the answer, or at least wait until the end of the post.

 

2) Help the poster help themselves. If it's a brand new guy (only a few posts), they may not know their way around. For the fairly simple stuff, help them...point them to the Knowledge Base (if it's a question already answered) or point them toward relevant threads. Insert specific links and help them with the search function (ie "run a search using this particular term"). Ask them for more information if it's needed to help troubleshoot.

 

3) Know what the heck you are talking about! Do NOT blindly suggest stuff without a logical train of thought. If it's for something complex, test it out yourself first! Recommend backups, insert caveats and explain exactly what the problem was and how it was solved. A 'shotgun' approach is confusing and frustrating for both parties. Keep it laser beam tight...the more variables you eliminate, the quicker you can come to a solution that makes sense.

 

4) An addition to step 3 - "Better to be thought of a fool, then open your mouth and remove all doubt." If you do not know how to help the person at all...then don't post. You can suggest a logical course of action to troubleshoot (or point them to specific parts of the Knowledge Base), but keep it polite, logical, and to the point. But do NOT suggest solutions if you have no idea of the problem...better to simply pass it by and let someone else help.

 

Hopefully this will result in less 'reinventing of the spinning wheels' for everyone...I may make this a sticky if folks find it useful.

 

FC

[Stick 773]

Duly noted.

[Wrench 9,461]

Here Here!!!

 

wrench

kevin stein

[FastCargo 412]

Folks, just to be clear, please ask questions and help folks when you can. This is just a template to make both sides of the conversation more productive for everyone!

 

FC

[+Sundowner 4,516]

FC, one thing that I do find irritating here is the constant "look in the KB" answers that some folks like to bang out endlessly, the whole of Combat Ace IS one huge knowledge base, that is the idea of forums is it not ?

I do use the KB, but myself personally find the search function less than helpful [maybe thats just me though].

But otherwise I agree 100% with your post.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Sundowner

[FastCargo 412]

Ant,

 

I agree with you to an extent...that's one of the reasons I specified for those wanting to help to insert specific links to the Knowledge Base or other threads or to help with the search function (because I have to admit, the Search function here isn't that great sometimes). I agree that general 'check the Knowledge Base' responses don't help as much, but I think it's useful for new guys to have URLs they can click on that someone helping them provided. It allows them to get the answers they need while still getting familiar with the Knowledge Base and how it works.

 

The hard part with Q and A is trying to strike a balance between total hand-holding and complete flailing.

 

FC

[+Sundowner 4,516]

"The hard part with Q and A is trying to strike a balance between total hand-holding and complete flailing"

 

Agreed mate.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Too right well said that man... sometimes even those who are native English speakers can write something that is unreadable...

 

As to the knowledge base besides the site being a knowledge base there are all little things that we all do that are not in the texts here that could help people out...

 

And helping yourself by being concise also means others are willing to help you as well...

 

thats my 2 pence worth...

[+Gocad 26]

Re: "Use the KB"

 

I do agree that sometimes it might seem a bit rude to respond to a question with said phrase or add it at the end of an elaborate explanation, but the point here is this:

This series has been out for quite awhile, it has its limitations and other quirks, which are well known (well, at least by those that have been around for ages) and it's mostly those people have spent quite a lot of time putting all the information that can be found in the KB together.

 

I got no problem to repeat myself over and over again, I do respond only to questions on matters where I do think that I know what I'm talking about (I hope), but I do expect (probably based on my preference on figuring out things myself) that people with questions have at least tried to do the same. And I would claim that most questions have already been answered once and that those answers are somewhere in the Knowledge Base.

 

Not to mention that I can't help but think that certain issues only exist because someone didn't bother to read that annoying text file every good addon comes with...

[+Dave 2,318]

I would never harp on using the Knowledge Base if people would actually use it. It can answer 80% of a person questions. It gets old answering the same thing when its been in the KB for years. People wanted a KB, we spent months, years getting it put together then no one uses it.

 

Having said that though FC is right. Help if you know HOW to help. I swear by the gods in Olympus if a certain person gives out wrong info again, he will be on moderated posting. I have more than a few people PM me to help fix their installs because of bad advice.

 

However I will personally endeavor to less refer to the KB if a person has failed at everything else.

[serverandenforcer 33]

I use the KB quite frequently and the search function and they have helped me out quite a bit. However, there are times where I'm not finding what I'm looking for... mainly because of a lot of irrelevant info that pops up, making it hard to find the relevant answer. Perhaps that's the problem with the search function. Is it possible for people to rate the relevancy of a post after searching for it... thereby making it easier for other people to use the search function? Was also wondering if it's possible to add to a person's profile on what kind of a system they're using, and what mods that they have for whatever sims/games that they play on it?

[+EricJ 3,937]

Think this one should be stickied...

[Silverbolt 104]

Think this one should be stickied...

 

I echo that , specially because i've already did this.

[+Soulfreak 6,351]

well I´m a friend of awnsering: use the KB, or try search function.

Not because i want to be bad to newbies.

It is cause, the biggest part of the questions has been awnsered minimum 1 Time.

Or the awnser is easy to find in the kb base.

I don´t know how it is with you. but I have noticed a trend over the last month (and years)

where people here ask before they do some research on their own....

So in the futurè i´ll only awnser when i can & if i want to help! ;)

Edited February 2, 2010 by Soulfreak

[MaverickMike 10]

I have gotta be honest and say anytime Iv ever asked for help on this forum, someone has answered my question. Usually within a few hours of posting. I agree with you on the basis that, the people asking the questions are usually new to the games and the people answering them are usually old hands that have most probably answered the question before. I guess its only natural the older guys get a bit Pi**ed off with it.

 

The KB on this site is simply brlliant and its a shame to see it not being used. Hopefully this topic will change that

 

Mike

Edited February 2, 2010 by MaverickMike

[RichardG 3]

I'm pretty new to thirdwire games, and so far everyone here has been a huge help to me. Getting basic modding done, ironing out bugs and installs. TK is even quick to help if you have a problem. Definitely one of the friendlier flight communities I've seen.

[Squiffy 1]

I've used the KB quite a lot these past few months. I have also spent a lot of time doing it. I sure hope I haven't pranged someone's install by shooting off my newbie mouth! But as far as the KB goes, I am a research librarian and use online databases all day long. I also cataloged through 3 courses in grad school and did a retrospective converion project in my first job. The KB could use some work as far as searching goes but it still contains a wealth of information. So I am just harping here. Maybe I should set about keyword tagging the KB, post by post, to make it more search friendly by subject? The weapon editing, and graphics info is really spread out so getting down to the funtional, make or break lines of code can be frustrating for newbies. I'm not trying to complain here, but overwhelming search results do not make for an efficient KB. But yeah, it would take a ton of work to streamline it so please accept my true thanks and respect for what's been done. It's just not a cake walk. <BR><BR>p.s. Maybe this could help: add a search field or two to what we have so you can include title terms, full text terms, forum limits, date, and so forth - all together. Maybe even add a hit count that will retag by relevance adding more and more immediate sorting to the questions they answer. This could be all wrapped up in the forum code but it would sure help. The forum setting istelf is rather clunky. ie You dont' need to search Nuke effects in OFF. ;)

Edited February 10, 2010 by Squiffy