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#21 Ratatat

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 09:22:38 AM

Hi vonOben,

I've made some progress. I wasn't going to post until my next experiment was complete. But I'll let you know where I'm at right now.

The first thing I discovered is that the program won't work with OFF at all unless you run the program's .exe file as administrator ( I'm running Win7 64 -bit ).

Currently it sort of works, but the time between my head movement and the response on screen is soooo sluggish that it is pretty much useless in game. It's something like a 5 second delay. Not much fun. Unless you enjoy crashing in to things.

However, I might have messed up the curves when I was working out why it wasn't functioning originally. There doesn't appear to be a "reset to defaults" option in the program so I plan on reinstalling the whole thing.
A second issue might be my camera's software interfering with the TrackNoIR software. So I also plan on stripping that out to see what happens. When I have time to do that I'll post again to let everyone know what happens.

What it has done though is really opened my eyes as to how incredible head tracking can be in OFF and made me hunger even more for a TracKIR device!

Cheers!

Ratatat
"Jawohl, unt velcome to our little slice of Hell, Herr Dummkopf." - RAF_Louvert

#22 V4Friend

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 12:51:48 PM

However, I might have messed up the curves when I was working out why it wasn't functioning originally. There doesn't appear to be a "reset to defaults" option in the program so I plan on reinstalling the whole thing.
A second issue might be my camera's software interfering with the TrackNoIR software. So I also plan on stripping that out to see what happens. When I have time to do that I'll post again to let everyone know what happens.

Hello Ratatat,

Well, no, there's no 'reset to defaults' button. But re-installing FaceTrackNoIR won't help much, because the settings are saved in the INI-file(s). You could just re-extract the file Over Flanders Fields.ini from the ZIP-file of update4 instead...

You don't mention how much fps and CPU-load you get? It's quite important that you get the fps somewhere above 20, because otherwise it will probably respond badly. You already mention removing software, that may interfere with FaceTrackNoIR: that's good. Besides that, good lighting is very, very important.

If fps are good and response is still slow, try gradually adjusting the settings: a lower settings always means faster response (but possibly more jitter).
Hope you don't need a TrackIR, unless you're a millionaire :grin:

#23 Ratatat

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 02:56:19 PM

Hi V4Friend,

Well, I'm definitely not a millionaire which is why your program caught my interest!

Yes, you're right I'll just re-extract the .ini file from update4. Much easier.

My average fps in OFF is 30 - 35 fps so no worries there I think. CPU load I don't know ( I'm at work right now ).

If it is any help, here are my PC specs off the top of my head:

Dual Core E8400 @ 3.0 GHZ
4 GB PC-800 RAM
GTX 460 768 MB
Win 7 Ultimate 64 BIT
Joystick is Cyborg Evo
Camera is S5500 Logitech

I'll try lowering the sliders ( I believe the Over Flanders Fields.ini starts at 5 ) and adding more light to the room - maybe some more candles? :grin:

Don't worry, I don't give up easily! I'll post my results when I get a chance to try things out again!

Cheers!

Ratatat
"Jawohl, unt velcome to our little slice of Hell, Herr Dummkopf." - RAF_Louvert

#24 Ratatat

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 07:29:55 PM

Update:

Well, I finally have to admit defeat.

I've spent many, many evenings trying to get this to work. But no joy.

Some info:

The fps I mentioned above refered to my in game fps. Not as it applied to FaceTrackNoIR. My mistake.

My computer is in a small room. All the walls and ceiling are white. I filled the room with lights until it was as bright ( and almost as hot ) as the sun and read just 20 fps in the FaceTrackNoIR program. It would start higher ( 28 fps ) but would stabilize at 20 fps. The performance of the program did not change. Adjusting settings made no impact. It still appeared as a slide show in game. Actually things became worse. The program now crashes and randomly loses the face tracking altogether.

Even if the program functioned well it would be impractical for me. Although perhaps I might sweat off a few pounds. :heat:

Ah, well...it was not meant to be chéri.

Edited by Ratatat, 28 November 2010 - 07:30:26 PM.

"Jawohl, unt velcome to our little slice of Hell, Herr Dummkopf." - RAF_Louvert

#25 V4Friend

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:43:57 AM

Update:

Well, I finally have to admit defeat. Even if the program functioned well it would be impractical for me. Although perhaps I might sweat off a few pounds. :heat:

Ah, well...it was not meant to be chéri.

Hi Ratatat,

I'm sorry to hear that :ohmy:. For some users it's just not meant to be...
It's probably a combination of PC-power, web-cam and bad luck that's keeping it from functioning right?
Well, maybe you'll get lucky some day, win the lottery and buy a nice, new rig. Then you might try again :grin:.

#26 Tamper

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:30:24 AM

Not so sure it's a system spec thing...

I use an i7 930, GTX260/Core216, 6G DDR3-1333, and two SSD's in RAID 0 on a hardware controller - not a slouchy system, by any standard. I bought the Logitech C-160 cam, as listed on the FaceTrackNoIR website. Like Ratatat, I also tried for quite some time to get this working, to no avail. Either no response in-game, or at best, very slow response (panning as if in slow-motion, for example). Also, in the FaceTrackNoIR interface, it will show as tracking my face fine, but even there (without running CFS3/OFF) it seems to go away and come back intermittently.

I would give anything to not have to wear the cumbersome head-tracking LED array (TrackClip) - well, anything *except* not having head-tracking that is. And I think it's a great idea, using face-tracking tech to replace the LED array, etc. It just doesn't seem 'ready for prime time' in my experience, and that's a shame. Even though it means wearing the array, TrackIR works well, so it's "worth the pain".

I do hope to see the idea continue to develop, though.

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#27 Hellshade

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:35:36 AM

I highly recommend (if people can afford it) the Pro version of TrackIR which is able to clip onto the side of a pair of headphones. Works great and you don't have to wear a hat like the normal version recommends. But obviously that presumes you are wearing headphones and not using regular speakers.

I too hope they continue to develop and improve the FaceTrackNoIR. The more people that can play OFF with "TrackIR-like" efficency, the better.

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#28 V4Friend

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:14:18 AM

I use an i7 930, GTX260/Core216, 6G DDR3-1333, and two SSD's in RAID 0 on a hardware controller - not a slouchy system, by any standard. ... Like Ratatat, I also tried for quite some time to get this working, to no avail. Either no response in-game, or at best, very slow response (panning as if in slow-motion, for example). Also, in the FaceTrackNoIR interface, it will show as tracking my face fine, but even there (without running CFS3/OFF) it seems to go away and come back intermittently.

I do hope to see the idea continue to develop, though.

Hello Tamper (and others),

After Ratatats' posts and after I had made some video's for FSX and FS2004 to put on youtube (see Gallery ), I tried CFS3 again (actually, I also want to shoot some images with that). Then I saw what Ratatat means: gameplay became very 'choppy' and head-movement was everything but smooth :blink:. Maybe the solution with the Tirviews DLL is not so good (yet).
I'll look into it some more :salute:.

BTW: my PC is not very impressive. It's a simple Medion Core2Duo E7300 @ 2,66GHz. Anyway, if you look at the video's I've shot with other games, you can see that the problem isn't really a face-tracking one (on my system). If the yellow lines appear and disappear like you say, then apparently there is a facetracking problem though...

#29 V4Friend

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:22:31 PM

Well, couldn't find an 'Edit' button? This is my edit of my previous post:

I have just tried CFS3 and FaceTrackNoIR again, while monitoring the CPU-usage. When both are running, my CPU-usage (well, of one CPU) is sky-high. That explains what happens when I also try to run fraps to record some video: my PC can't handle it :yikes:.

#30 Polovski

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:29:33 PM

Thanks for your efforts V4Friend, CFS3 is quite CPU intensive program. I wonder if telling the program to use another separate core might help?

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#31 V4Friend

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:02:01 PM

Thanks for your efforts V4Friend, CFS3 is quite CPU intensive program. I wonder if telling the program to use another separate core might help?

Hi Polovski,

'Your thoughts are my thoughts' :grin:. I just tried that... Well, I changed the affinity of FaceTrackNoIR to use only CPU1 and let CFS3 use both CPU0 and CPU1. Actually, the results were worse than before...

When I first tried the Tirviews solution, I only sat in the plane while moving my head and not touching any controls. Doing that it seems to work fine. However, when I do use the controls the CPU-load gets bigger (I can understand why) and the game gets choppy...

#32 Gous

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:24:12 PM

This is truly amazing. Donate if you can, I approve of this project. :ok:
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#33 Polovski

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:59:10 PM

Just a theory I'm not a CPU expert but it may need to be on a separate core completely (think core 0 and 1 are basically hyperthreading?). Maybe try CFS3 on core 0 and FacetrackNoIR on CPU 2??

It seemed to work fine for me at default settings in OFF though (Phase 4), no fps issue. Although I will have to play with sensitivity as it took large head movement to move in sim.
I have an overclocked quad core i7 920 on Windows 7 64bit. I noticed my webcam uses 11% CPU approx, maybe others use more CPU too? Webcam is Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000.

Also not sure it's important I noticed when it was tracking my eyes etc that it sometimes moved the eye dots to nose area or something, (as if it thought my nose area was where my eyes were ;)) but worked ok.

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#34 V4Friend

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:20:26 AM

This is truly amazing. Donate if you can, I approve of this project. :ok:


Hello Gous,

Thanks for your support. Indeed all donations are welcome! Some people just don't seem to realize the time, effort and money it costs to maintain and support a program like FaceTrackNoIR.

@Polovski: Well, your PC-specs are significantly better than mine :good:. 11% CPU-load is very decent. I had an older web-cam first and that used approx. 20%. Now I have a PS3 Eye and it tracks better, but uses more CPU (30%). I think that is mainly caused by the fact that it's resolution is higher, so a bigger image must be analyzed by faceAPI. I must investigate, to see if I can change that...

I will try to run CFS3 and FaceTrackNoIR on seperate CPU's, to see if that works. I'll be back :grin:

#35 Ratatat

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 07:36:11 AM

Hi V4Friend,

My CPU load also shows 11%.

My computer specs again are:

Dual Core E8400 @ 3.0 GHZ
4 GB PC-800 RAM
GTX 460 768 MB
Win 7 Ultimate 64 BIT
Joystick is Cyborg Evo
Camera is S5500 Logitech

I wish you good luck with your testing! :good:
"Jawohl, unt velcome to our little slice of Hell, Herr Dummkopf." - RAF_Louvert

#36 V4Friend

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:19:20 AM

Hi V4Friend,

My CPU load also shows 11%.

Camera is S5500 Logitech
I wish you good luck with your testing! :good:


Hello Ratatat,

I've just tried some other combinations with the CPU-affinity of the processes FaceTrackNoIR.exe and CFS3.exe. Alas, to no avail: CPU-load jumps to 100% as soon as I start flying and then I can't even fly straight any more :blink:. It works best when I leave CPU-affinity to default and let both processes use both processors... I think there are some 'connections' there, which I am not aware of.

You say 11%?! That very fair. I do really wonder why it won't work smoothly on your system then. I'm hesitant to propose some other things you might try, but I will anyway. Could you try another flight simulator (like FreeFalcon 5, it's free!) to see if that does work? Another thing you might try, is another web-cam (maybe you can borrow one, from a friendly neighbour?).

I hate disappointing people :dntknw:

#37 Polovski

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 05:01:27 PM

Just wondering if the some cameras have any processing on board and some have none? Just as some built-in sound cards use a fair bit of CPU, and some have their own processing units.

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#38 V4Friend

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 06:49:24 AM

Just wondering if the some cameras have any processing on board and some have none? Just as some built-in sound cards use a fair bit of CPU, and some have their own processing units.


Yes, that may very well be the case. Maybe someone else can enlighten :idea: us on that subject?

While trying to find a way to optimize my PS3 Eye, I did find a way to switch the driver to 'advanced-mode', so it can go higher than 30fps (see Webcams on FaceTrackNoIR) .
I am now studying the CL-Eye SDK, to see if I can create a facetracker, using opencv (hopefully creating a 'lighter' tracker than faceAPI that way). That will not be easy and very time-consuming. It would really help if more people would support the project. :cool:

#39 V4Friend

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 10:43:22 AM

Hello Combat Aces!

I have recently released update 5 of FaceTrackNoIR (if you didn't already notice). The website was also completely re-designed, so maybe you would like to take a look there?

Update 5 contains a number of improvements, among which a brand new filter. It responds faster and makes tracking more accurate. As a bonus, the program seems to consume less CPU-power: I am now able to run CFS3, FaceTrackNoIR and TIRViews on my Dual Core PC and it works fine!

Try it and have fun! :drinks:

#40 UK_Widowmaker

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 11:38:05 AM

I have trackir..and a webcam..I shall have a go with this proggy V4Friend (another guinea Pig wont hurt)

Well done Sir!
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