OBD's Next big Project Revealed! And It's Big!

[Hauksbee 103]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4314509/OBD_Roadmap#Post4314509

[33LIMA 972]

Sounds great - whether CFS3-based or not, it'll be what CFS3 should have been and more, sort of EAW2.

 

Perhaps we will, once again, be able to tune in the radio in the Nissen hut and listen to the news or some music, and hear the bed-springs creak and the bloke in the next bed cough, as we study our logbook or our tickets for the show we're taking in, on our day off...or the OBD equivalent in immersion.

[Hellshade 110]

They have evidently been hard at work on it for over a year and still have no ETA (that's standard for OBD, though).  They have stated that improvements to the sim engine for Wings Over the Reich will get ported back into WOFF UE at some point, so that would certainly be a pleasant bonus.   I'm certainly looking forward to what they come up with.   I'll pay an extra $50 if I can import a Spitfire from WOTR into WOFF UE and terrorize the huns for awhile.  ;)  

[Hauksbee 103]

 I'll pay an extra $50 if I can import a Spitfire from WOTR into WOFF UE and terrorize the huns for awhile.  ;)  

I'd pay an extra $100 to have a Fokker E.III with an engine that would give me  Fokker  DVIIF performance. Always did love that plane but it is tedious beyond belief to fly. Are the Devs still using the basic files from CFS3?

[Hellshade 110]

I'd pay an extra $100 to have a Fokker E.III with an engine that would give me  Fokker  DVIIF performance. Always did love that plane but it is tedious beyond belief to fly. Are the Devs still using the basic files from CFS3?

 

Multiple people have done fresh installs with no CFS3 installed and it doesn't ask for the CD.   My guess is that for practical purposes, it isn't required, but some of OBDs code is a heavily modified version of the CFS3 code so for legal reasons it probably should be.   Pure speculation on my part.   I do notice at the bottom of the wingsoverflandersfields.com/requirements website it does still say CFS3 is required. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Hellshade

[JimAttrill 24]

It is interesting that there is no mention of CFS3 over there - whether it is needed or not.   But I can say (as a great installer of WOFF for various reasons) that WOFF UE does not require the CSF3 disk although I had it ready as usual.  I have no idea what the legal whatnot behind this must be but it rather looks as if OBD has reached an agreement with Micro$oft or whoever.  But nobody is saying anything. 

[JFM 18]

Hello!

 

Let's just be honest and remove the "if" in "if CFS3 is needed" for UE. IT IS NOT. They say it is (in the FAQ), but it is not. As others have experienced, the proof of that is I had a brand new computer built for me by my brother. It was only one week old when UE was released. I had NOT installed *any* OBD product prior to UE, so there were no "leftover files," as has been suggested. The CFS3 DVD never left its case and UE installed and runs anyway.  

 

I have a friend who works at MS. He was part of the FSX and now Prepared3D team. I asked him if MS would let another company use their files or if they would license them to others. He said no to the first and that with the second, the normal order of events is both parties (MS and Sim Company X) have dual press releases announcing a deal has been made to license/use CFS3 code, files, etc. I have seen no such announcement. That doesn't mean a deal hasn't been made, your honor; I'm not privy to such inside information. I'm just saying. But it IS curious that all remain tight-lipped about the elimination of CFS3 when its prior requirement was a huge sticking point with many that kept them away. And why else (I speculate) would you want to eliminate such need, and pay for the privilege of not needing CFS3 anymore, but then not say anything about it? It doesn't make sense if they are paying to license code/files. 

In any event, I'm definitely looking forward to a western front WW2 sim. 

Edited December 3, 2016 by JFM

[Hellshade 110]

But it IS curious that all remain tight-lipped about the elimination of CFS3 when its prior requirement was a huge sticking point with many that kept them away. And why else (I speculate) would you want to eliminate such need, and pay for the privilege of not needing CFS3 anymore, but then not say anything about it? It doesn't make sense if they are paying to license code/files. 

 

OBD has made it clear they were in financial straights until MFair came along to be their official sponsor.   I find it unlikely (but possible) MFair paid the licensing fee after he came on board and well nigh impossible that OBD paid it before.  

 

I stand by my utterly unproven, purely speculative theory that WOFF UE uses enough heavily modified CFS3 code that they have incorporated into the sim that, for practical purposes, WOFF UE can be installed and run all on it's own without a CFS3 disk, but for legal purposes, WOFF UE "requires" CFS3.  That would explain why they wouldn't remove the MS CFS3 component from the list of requirements.   They certainly aren't going to put a post that says "You need to buy it even though it works without it."  And as you said, if someone did pay the licensing fee, I would think that would be shouted from the highest rooftops.    

 

I think that theory explains why they are tight lipped about it.  They can't legally say it doesn't require CFS3 even though it works just fine without it.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Hellshade

[JFM 18]

Wouldn't "legal purposes" transcend what they can say and include what they can do? For example, if someone steals a loaf of bread from the store but then tells everyone that you are still legally required to pay for that bread, would taking the bread in the first place still be wrong? 

 

If a licensing fee has been paid by MSFair, where is the dual press announcement toward that end?

 

I don't know. I'm not making accusations and I like the OBD guys and have supported them, and perhaps (likely) it's just that there are many details I don't know which are none of my business, but I can't help but say that from way out here something seems fishy. Love to be proven wrong. Sincerely. 

[Hellshade 110]

Wouldn't "legal purposes" transcend what they can say and include what they can do? For example, if someone steals a loaf of bread from the store but then tells everyone that you are still legally required to pay for that bread, would taking the bread in the first place still be wrong? 

 

If a licensing fee has been paid by MSFair, where is the dual press announcement toward that end?

 

 

Yes, legal purposes do transcend what can be done practically.  That is why (in my opinion) the website still says that CFS3 is Required - even though for practical installation purposes it is not.   Yes, you can take a loaf of bread without paying for it, but obviously it's still illegal.  You can also install WOFF UE without CFS3, but it's still illegal to do so - hence the still posted requirement for CFS3.   OBD is trying to make sure new purchasers know they are legally required to own CFS3.  I don't see that as fishy.   

 

I doubt seriously that a licensing fee has been paid.  If it had, they wouldn't still be posting that CFS3 is a requirement.    

[JFM 18]

The salient point concerns CFS3 files being included with UE in the first place--is THAT legal? Without a licensing fee? 

 

And I agree, unlikely there was a deal to license CFS3 code/files because there has been no official press release. 

 

This from my friend at MS: 

 

"Q: If OBD bundled in the CFS3 files without MS permission, would MS pursue them legally?

 

A: Probably not, but if they are making money, then it’s possible. While they say on their site, “NOTE: You are required to own Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3”, that doesn’t absolve them from responsibility if [my emphasis] they are including files in their product that are the Intellectual Property of Microsoft. They [would be], in effect, distributing a pirated copy of CFS3."

Again, there are "ifs" involved here. I wrote OBD directly about UE installing without CFS3 and they said (paraphrasing) for me to keep quiet about it to avoid confusion. What confusion was never defined. I'm not accusing them of pirating because there could be some details that are proprietary and need not be discussed publicly. Meanwhile, however, based on messages I receive, there is among many a growing curiosity about the silence regarding the removed need of CFS3 to install/run WOFF UE. I just seem to be the only guy willing to broach the subject.  

[Hellshade 110]

 

 

"Q: If OBD bundled in the CFS3 files without MS permission, would MS pursue them legally?

 

A: Probably not, but if they are making money, then it’s possible. 

 

 

Well, I am sorry to say then (with a bit of gallows humor) that everything is probably just fine.  The last thing anyone can accuse OBD of is "making money" on a WWI flight sim.   It's not like literally everyone else left the market because they were tired of making so much money.  LOL

Edited December 4, 2016 by Hellshade

[JimAttrill 24]

I know very little about Micro$oft except that they love making money.  Unfortunately for them, not from me.  I can't see them letting anyone get away without paying for anything.  I think they have done more to set back and destroy the pc movement than any other organisation.  End of Rant. 

[JFM 18]

Agreed, Jim, that MS wouldn't let their property be used without permission, no matter how much money wasn't being made from said property, because that would be an obvious slippery slope.  

 

But, everything I've brought up is merely rampantly speculative "what ifs" for conversation's sake. I don't want anyone to get the impression I'm accusing OBD of anything untoward. I'm not. 

[Hellshade 110]

Straight from Polovski as posted on Facebook.