Jump to content


Photo

F-4 Mach 3 Fighter/ Spy plane (link)


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 xrearl

xrearl
  • VALUED MEMBER
  • 275 Posts

Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:48:13 PM

https://tacairnet.co...ghterspy-plane/


  • MigBuster, Coupi and emresukhoi like this
The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on.
Ulysses S. Grant (1822 - 1885)

#2 Fubar512

Fubar512

    Papa Smurf

  • MODERATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 8,465 Posts

Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:54:47 PM

Wow.  Thanks for sharing this.


The only thing in life more advantageous than having an enemy overestimate your faults, is to a have a friend underestimate your virtues.


Posted Image Posted Image

#3 Stratos

Stratos
  • EDITOR
  • Political Arena
  • 3,520 Posts

Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:37:33 AM

Amazing history! Thanks for sharing!!



#4 RUSTYMORLEY

RUSTYMORLEY
  • VALUED MEMBER
  • 356 Posts

Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:09:13 AM

Wow.  Thanks for sharing this.

 

Same for me, a very unusual tale indeed !!!


You are born, you live and then you die, what you do in-between is up to you!


#5 JediMaster

JediMaster

    Spam Lost its Appeal

  • MODERATOR
  • 10,001 Posts

Posted 13 January 2017 - 01:02:47 PM

I remember reading that in one of my books about the F-4. As it never got very far it's not widely known, but it's an interesting "what if" up there with the F-108, TSR2, and YF-12.


The Jedi Master
"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"


#6 Stratos

Stratos
  • EDITOR
  • Political Arena
  • 3,520 Posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:09:22 AM

I just printed it and will add to my Phantom reference book, such development planes are always cool.



#7 Toryu

Toryu
  • SENIOR MEMBER
  • Deutsche Luftwaffe, Political Arena
  • 757 Posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:44:28 PM

You can't build a Mach 3 capable airframe by just bolting on water-tankss, tweaking the inlet-system and modifying the flight-controls of a Mach 2 airframe.

 

The most critical problem north of Mach 2 is shock-heating. You can go Mach 2.5 for a very short time in an aluminium-airframe (as actually demonstrated by F-4s during Project Skyburner), but that's about it. Aluminium will weaken a lot above 120°C, which is about the leading-edge temperature at Mach 2*.

 

If you want to go faster (even just on a dash), you'll need different materials: stainless steel (heavy) or titanium (a dog to work with - especially machining - thus gold-dust expensive).

The US had their strategic bird at this time (SR-71), and giving funds to Israel for tweaking a Mach 2 bird into a low-volume Mach 3 retrofit-program wasn't a politically and fiscally sane idea.

 

___

* Depends on a couple of factors, but generally Mach 2 is an upper-bound for aluminium-airframes for this very reason


  • Fubar512 and Gepard like this

toryusigzb7.jpg
ONE pilot, ONE bomb, ONE WAY!


#8 Fubar512

Fubar512

    Papa Smurf

  • MODERATOR
  • Political Arena
  • 8,465 Posts

Posted 16 January 2017 - 11:56:22 PM

You can't build a Mach 3 capable airframe by just bolting on water-tankss, tweaking the inlet-system and modifying the flight-controls of a Mach 2 airframe.

 

The most critical problem north of Mach 2 is shock-heating. You can go Mach 2.5 for a very short time in an aluminium-airframe (as actually demonstrated by F-4s during Project Skyburner), but that's about it. Aluminium will weaken a lot above 120°C, which is about the leading-edge temperature at Mach 2*.

 

 

 

The F-104's Vmax was also limited due to thermal issues, it could attain a Mach number high enough to melt its windscreen (which if I recall correctly, occurred between Mach 2.25 and 2.5). I am sure a similar issue existed with the F-4.


The only thing in life more advantageous than having an enemy overestimate your faults, is to a have a friend underestimate your virtues.


Posted Image Posted Image

#9 Toryu

Toryu
  • SENIOR MEMBER
  • Deutsche Luftwaffe, Political Arena
  • 757 Posts

Posted Yesterday, 05:57:46 AM

There was a flight by an operational F-104C, using tweaked inlet-cones (similar to those on the NF-104) and the larger tail of the twin-seaters/ G-model.

They went out to about Mach 2.5 with acceleration still ongoing, when the pilot (Tom Delashaw) RTBed.

http://www.i-f-s.nl/f-104-records/

There used to be a pilot's account of Delashaw, but I can't find it now.

 

The F-104G has three limits concerning speed:

M 2.0 (mainly a stability limit)

750 KIAS (q-limit)

121°C Compressor Inlet Temperature

 

The windscreen-thing was probably an issue on all fightes back then. Luckily, the fuel wouldn't last too long anyway.


toryusigzb7.jpg
ONE pilot, ONE bomb, ONE WAY!





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests