Flak in WOV

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Something i was just wondering about.

 

I'm on my third campaign flying Thuds and one thing i really noticed is despite sometimes very heavy flak at altitude, neither my squadronmates nor i have ever been hit by it. Down in the weeds it's another story. The 14.5 mm guns in particular, are my bane and have led to me all but abandoning low level time. I've also been nailed by a SAM while coming off a target so i know they can get me.

 

But Flak? Never a scratch.

 

Anyone else as "lucky"

 

Or is it just a bug?

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Something i was just wondering about.

 

I'm on my third campaign flying Thuds and one thing i really noticed is despite sometimes very heavy flak at altitude, neither my squadronmates nor i have ever been hit by it. Down in the weeds it's another story. The 14.5 mm guns in particular, are my bane and have led to me all but abandoning low level time. I've also been nailed by a SAM while coming off a target so i know they can get me.

 

But Flak? Never a scratch.

 

Anyone else as "lucky"

 

Or is it just a bug?

 

 

I havn't had any damage from flak since about the 2.0 service pack. Tried making the flak more effective with the 3.2 version but was unsuccessful. Havn't tried with SP 4.0. I think theres a radar guided KS-19 available somewhere that might work better. I think this is an interesting question, especially for players who like to fly in the "Pre Sam" eras. Any ideas?

[Draakje 0]

the flak always seems to aim high of the target.

 

when i get flak its always above my plane, when i climb to get to the flak it rises with the plane.

[+Paladrian 11]

Some days ago I saw my wingman getting hit by flak, I couldn't believe it

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Considering just how bad the triple A was in Pack 6 , i was amazed to have made it out of a few situations.

 

 

It's not just like i fly straight and level. I jink like hell and vary my altitude by up to 2000ft sometimes when i know i'm locked. It's just that i've had multiple burst go off so close i thought a SAM got me and yet i made it out in one piece when by all rights i should have been a goner.

[+Stary 2,426]

Interesting topic. I also discovered that WoV's flak has no effect on a plane. Even fuzing 10 feet from my canopy (had screenshot somewhere). Something wrong is here. Must check it on a clean install, as it seemed deadly as far as I remember. But down low it's a bitch.

[Draakje 0]

seen my wingman been taken out by it aswell , probally was aiming for me while my wingman was flying a bit higher.

[Forlorn 0]

Actually I got shot down by flak recently.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I read about the shootdown in your diary, Forlorn.

 

At least you had the luck of being over the water when you ejected.

 

 

One thing i did yesterday after attacking(and missing) the Dragon's jaw was to check out the defences in the area. While my flight of Thuds was heading back to Korat, i was watching an Navy A-4 that was doing flak supression in the vicinity of the target. The plane was going in on a strafing run and i paused it just as it lost it's rudder to ground fire. I then checked out every gun and SAM in the area and was shocked by just how many 14.5 and 23mm guns there were. I mean, they were everywhere! As well as plentiful 57mm and a good number of 100mm guns too. There were also 2 SAM sites, but the small guns are the real killer down below.

 

This led me to the conclusion that ANYONE who spends too much time on the deck is living on borrowed time.

 

PS-The A-4 went down soon after. The element leader had been shot down earlier

Edited July 31, 2006 by Lt. James Cater

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Actually I got shot down by flak recently.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but thats good news. I recall a post by TK quite awhile ago, he doesn't consider flak very effective in real life. Getting shot down by it might be a bit of a random event. Another post I recall someone mentioned the approach used in IL2 / Pacific Fighters, in that game apparantly the flak is more effective than real life. The developers used that approach so they wouldn't have to put large numbers of flak guns around target areas, which would really kill frame rates. Might be time to fiddle with the KS-19 again. Regards.

Edited July 31, 2006 by baffmeister

[BOOM 0]

The only time ive ever gotten hit by it was while attacking a warehouse and i practivcally landed on the gun and even than it just put two or three holes in non important places. I think it is more effective if you just run into the thing and it takes out your wing! If you want to make it more powerfull than just increas the amount of explosive charge in the shell. If they are hitting a little high than decrease the velocity a very small amount and just keep doing it until you like were it is.

[Murphy'S 15]

Just a thing i notice..................when you get shot by the flak (shells over 37mm).........it NEVER appears in the mission log (it happen to me a few times)...

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Don't take this the wrong way, but thats good news. I recall a post by TK quite awhile ago, he doesn't consider flak very effective in real life. Getting shot down by it might be a bit of a random event. Another post I recall someone mentioned the approach used in IL2 / Pacific Fighters, in that game apparantly the flak is more effective than real life. The developers used that approach so they wouldn't have to put large numbers of flak guns around target areas, which would really kill frame rates. Might be time to fiddle with the KS-19 again. Regards.

 

Flak over North Vietnam was the #1 killer of aircraft hands down.

 

I've read a number of books by former pilots, and to a man, they were in awe of the volume of AAA fire. Migs they didn't worry about all that much, and SAMS could be avoided. But almost everyone dreaded the "golden BB" that had their name on it.

 

I remember getting shot down in a classic manner. While dodging two SAMs, i got too low and was begining to climb when a 14.5mm gun flamed my Thud and that was all she wrote. I was at about 1890ft when i was hit, bottoming out of a split S.

 

I don't take any chances with flak. If it gets close, i jink like hell!

[Mark5388196 0]

I have made it through a couple of times with my F-4 at REALLY low levels, im talking 10-15ft above the deck. I chose not to take off so I would have enough gas, I went full burner and jinked like hell. Made it through 2 bomb runs on the bridge. First flight my 500lb bombs I was carrying missed. I turned back and pickled my 2000lbers.

 

Mark

[Fubar512 1,350]

Try adding properly networked (radar-controlled) 85-130 MM AAA and see how long you last. I use the default SF-WoV KS-19 model as a KS-12 85 MM, and use Pasko's KS-19 and KS-30 100 & 130 MM guns, along with a SON-9A fire control radar (a model that's yet to be released).

[Mark5388196 0]

The AAA gunners would be picking my plane off there barrels, I doubt I would make the target.

[Sky Captain 0]

I've actually been shot down by flak more times than by SAM's. Of course, I do like to fly down low to the deck (probably comes from watching Hollywood's version of flying too much ), where SAM sites can't get you for beans, whereas 300 feet and below seems to be Triple-A paradise.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

The only time ive ever gotten hit by it was while attacking a warehouse and i practivcally landed on the gun and even than it just put two or three holes in non important places. I think it is more effective if you just run into the thing and it takes out your wing! If you want to make it more powerfull than just increas the amount of explosive charge in the shell. If they are hitting a little high than decrease the velocity a very small amount and just keep doing it until you like were it is.

 

I tried increasing the explosive charge on a 3.2 install but it didn't seem to have any effect. [ read that in a thread at ThirdWires forum.] Possible I did something wrong. Time to try again, and will try decreasing muzzle velocity as well. Good to hear some people are getting tagged by flak. [ exploding timed fuse variety] I was starting to wonder if it was just there for decoration!

[+Jug 99]

I tried increasing the explosive charge on a 3.2 install but it didn't seem to have any effect. [ read that in a thread at ThirdWires forum.] Possible I did something wrong. Time to try again, and will try decreasing muzzle velocity as well. Good to hear some people are getting tagged by flak. [ exploding timed fuse variety] I was starting to wonder if it was just there for decoration!

 

Keep in mind, if you're flying a Thud, I have read that anything below 600 knots on the deck and you're toast. Keep your energy up and use the terrain for masking (put a mountain between you and the bad guys....actually a hill will do).

 

I, personally, think the AAA is modeled pretty well. It is hard to hit a fast-mover with a gun and that is that. Most of the AAA guns used in Vietnam were older models and radar controlled groups of AAA were rare, new and largely ineffective.

 

When you get down in the weeds a NVA regular with an AK can take you out as well as a kid on a bike throwing rocks up in your flight path. Those big Phantom (Old Double Ugly) intakes in burner are sucking in everything in sight and at 27,000 rpms jet engines don't need much going through the intake to shell the engine out completely. When an engine shells out it usually takes something important to flying with it (like the elevators or rudder) and usually throw something ugly into the adjoining engine (F-111, A-5, F-4, or other planes with engines that sit close to each other in the fuselage).

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Those older guns were used quite effectivly by the North Vietnamese.

 

Something in the neighborhood of 90% of F-105 combat losses were due to flak.

 

Personally, i avoid the worst of flak by making my minimum altitude at 10000ft. While on my bomb run i try not to dive in lower than 3-4000ft if i can. Since i usually go lower (depends on the target) I get the nose up and into burner as fast as i can.

 

Terrain i like for breaking the lock of gun and SAM radars. Thud ridge is great for that, and one hill i call "SAM knoll" (due west of Hanoi, past the airfields) has help me dodge SAMs countless times.

 

All in all, my squadron is getting decimated by SAMs. Of our 6 losses in 23 missions, 5 have been to SAMS and one to a 23mm gun.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Lt. James Cater

[Sky Captain 0]

You have to watch them suckers. Dodging those things can be quite challenging, but it can get kind of fun jinking around in a Scooter. Then again I'm the one who finds being lifted out of my roller coaster seat on a steep fall fun. I find that diving like a starving Peregrine Falcon is a good way to lose SAM's.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

You have to watch them suckers. Dodging those things can be quite challenging, but it can get kind of fun jinking around in a Scooter. Then again I'm the one who finds being lifted out of my roller coaster seat on a steep fall fun. I find that diving like a starving Peregrine Falcon is a good way to lose SAM's.

 

SAMs are something i'm going to start a thread about in the future. Personally, i deal with them in the classic fashion since going too low might get you zapped depending on where you are. About the only sure place that i know where you can get right down in the weeds without drawing fire is the east side of Thud ridge. That is absolutly, THE safest approach to targets in Hanoi itself. I've never done the west side since the other gives you a longer covered approach.

 

You know, we ought to get a thread started about safe/hazardous/dangerous/ areas and routes over the North.

[Guest Maico]

I am a newbee here but I think the flak in this game is purely there for entretainment. Only down low have I seen the guns get me. The high bursting flak is just pretty eye candy LOL.

[+Jarhead1 27]

I am a newbee here but I think the flak in this game is purely there for entretainment. Only down low have I seen the guns get me. The high bursting flak is just pretty eye candy LOL.

 

 

I have been smoked by flak up high multiple times, and it says on the mission log Capt. Stinson was hit by KS-19 100mm Flak cannon. Its not all there for eye candy, and i was in an add on FB-111 so what does that tell u, with flares n chaff and ECM capability.

[HrntFixr 4]

If you want some murderous flak look into the Yankee Air Pirate add-on for WOV.