I think I may have had enough of the mp bullsh*t

[Guest Ranger332]

"I'll say this, I feel real bad for the people that have the walmart version, they got the big pile of sh*t, and now they just get to throw another terd on top of that pile. But it can be fixed, and it will be. "

 

 

 

Walmart was the cause of that problem they forced the eairly release,and as they had a contract they forced the now named "Walmart version" to be released the second release was put out early to try to save face so to speak,as the wally world version was so bad.

[snapple2993 0]

It's still a peice of sh*t.

 

Hey ranger what happens when you cook Chicken for to short a time.... you get sal manela*, thats what. And thats what we got.

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Denzil, I did not mean to sound like I was putting down modders, I think alot of them do wonderful jobs, even with the limited resources given to them. I love the F-105 mod, because I love the 105 in real life. I also know that the community is not fickle enough, as in the acceptance of the P-51. I think the P-51 mod almost perfectly describes what I am saying. Here is a mod that has no viable FM whatsoever, and even that is admitted by TK as to not having accurate prop FMs. So here is a mod of a plane that isn't close to an acceptable flight model, is not in the historic timeline of what the sim is, nor has any historically accurate enemy to fight. For this mod and others to have viability, they must pass two litmus tests to actually add to the sim. First, it must survive the patches. We have already seen that practically no mod survived the first patch. Are we gonna have to go through complete updates for mods to work, let alone delete our SF files in order to reinstall so the patch can work? This is where the "painted car" similie comes in. Second, the mods have to have some sort of historic viability. We have a P-51, but no arena or theatre, no Bf109 or A6m2 for it to fight. These things may come with time, but they WILL NOT come if the FM for prop driven planes is pounded out.

 

The community is full of verve on this sim, but is also like a kid on Pixie sticks and cans of Coke. They want to move one way, but they don't take the time to see which way to go forward. I repeatedly asked if the first patch would wipe out the mods 3 weeks before the first patch came out. For 3 weeks I got the arrogant answer of just plain "NO!", and this from beta testers and other "insiders". Well, we know how that turned out. And their answers fueled the drive of modders, incorrectly thinking that patches won't screw up their mods. Some mods haven't fully recovered. And now, Lo and Behold, we are finding out little by little that it is mods that are keeping alot of MP problems.

 

Simply put, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, and the brain isn't trying to help.

 

I like this game. I would love this game if MP was fixed. I have no negativaty for any modders, as I don't have to load any mod I don't want. But I hope they think about how their effort gets received, and I don't mean by the community, I mean by TK and 3rd wire. Mods should be like ice cream topping, they shouldn't be the Ice cream. And to me, MP is the bowl holding it all together. Without the bowl, its just a big mess.

 

No negativity, no harsh words directed at anybody. Just want people to know that I shouldn't HAVE to fix MP, I should be playing MP out of the box, and if the product doesn't work, I have a right to complain till it is. Software shouldn't be different from any other product, and until we treat it like it is, we are gonna get things like SF and WWIIonline and Battlecruiser 3000.

[Guest Ranger332]

lol it sort of like voting if you dident vote dont complaine how the gov is working,and again I say if your not sending your probs to the game makers your just wasting your time

and recheck your facts the P-51 was used back the by third world countries

 

THe Us used them till 53Korean War, P-51Ds were used primarily for close support of ground forces until withdrawn from combat in 1953.The P-51s fought well out of WW2 and into Korea, where they were used as both attack and fighter aircraft. With ease the Russian Yakovlev fighters were shot down by the Mustang, and once even a MiG-15 was hit and probably eventually shot down by a pair of P-51Ds.

http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/id23.htm

[MadJeff 3]

Just a few words of warning from the Admin. I'll let this post stand for now as I think there are some great points brought up by both sides. As long as we keep this thread CIVIL then you can argue the pros and cons all you want. Just remember the cardinal rule here, no personal attacks directed at each other OR TK. Keep it friendly and maybe we can have a productive discussion.

 

If it doesn't stay friendly, then I will lock the thread. :P

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Thanks Jeff, I think there is alot of very good points from both sides also.

 

Ranger, let me add alittle to your "voting" analogy. We DID vote, with our pocketbooks, by buying this sim, and expecting it to perform as was advertised on the box. Had the box said "Multiplayer does not work as advertised, as does other things in this sim", then we would be buying what was advertised, and would not have any other expectation. But we "voted" (with our money) for a candidate (the sim), and the sim is not doing what it said it would do during it's campaign promises (what was advertised on the box). So, because we voted (money), we have every right to complain.

 

Am I wrong in that analogy?

[Guest Ranger332]

so your saying if your party just tell you it raising taxes to favor the rich its ok let them do it..... no its an on going process I bought meny a flight sim that took upto a year to even proform as posted on the cover,at least things are being done some openly some undercover but things are being worked on if you had the game long enough we heard the same rantings befor the first patch(even though it was manly the single player issues that were fixed) but we heard them I quit never will play this again returned it for another game and so on these statements are not new. but them after it came out we lost some of the multiplayer but note this they worked on what was reported as problems if you want to be heard post in skunk works

http://skunkworks.free.fr/

or to some extent here

http://forum.biohazcentral.com/posting.php...de=reply&t=1266

these two forums get alot more attention then SHQ. but again i say list the problem the pc and os your using and what happened before the problem started

 

 

we use extra hud setting in our work not a nice as the regular game but it helps

 

 

 

this info tell the managers where we were speed location and the like it helps so it can be recreated once that is known then they can work on local problems reather then flying around trying to find the prob to fix it.

the mp issued are being worked on in other project areas

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Oh, Ranger Just noticed the P-51 thing. Yes, third world countries did use the P-51, yet it wasn't exactly the P-51D model. Alot of these late war Mustangs were modified, which was noticable in the leading edge "kink" for the landing gear, and a fin added to the rudder to compensate for the problems of flight instabilty due to fuel tank placement.

 

I usually get real literal when we take WWII planes, because models of the same plane can be very different planes in their own right, as is the P-51/F-51. Take the 109 for example. It is possible to say that Isreal used the 109 up to until the 1960s. Which could be percieved as true. But if you get literal, the 109s used by Isreal were Hispano made 109s with Merlin engines. This example can be used to compare the P-51 in the same light. I am a Luftwaffe guy, but my Mustang friends have spoken volumes on what was considered something of a Super-Mustang after the war.

 

I also get literal when we discuss the use of a plane in how many numbers were actually used. Alot of these 3rd world countries didn't have Mustangs in large numbers, some only a handful, and these were war weary Mustangs, also. And I can't say I have ever seen an example of any of those Mustangs being used in the Vietnam are, or on the psuedo-Middle East of the 1960's, as prescribed in Strike Fighters.

 

The Mustang was used in WWII and Korea, predominantly. After that, most countries found more cost effective, more powerful replacements. Even the Mig-17 didn't see combat with the P-51, or if it did, it was only in a once or twice happenstance, with the probable ending of the Mustang hugging the ground in a race for home.

[Guest Ranger332]

there are two confermed kills of migs by 51s

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Ranger, we really CAN"T send that stuff. This is MP issues, where you can't join a session, or it crashes during loading, or it crashes during hangar screen, or it crashes rigth after hangar screen, or we get in and nobodies in the arena, or it crashes after getting into the arena, and I mean like 2 seconds after getting into the arena.

 

We have done it with mods, without mods, different hosts, different terrains, just about everyway you can try. And I would have to say with all fairness, we cannot generate a screenshot from a crash.

 

Out attempts have been noted over many boards, not just this one, and I would think Skunk works would know of them, particularly if Denzil (<S>) is here answering stuff on this board. SIMHQ was where the beta testers were, we thought it should at least be noticed there.

 

 

Ranger, Snapples original frustrated post is because so much has been tried by our squad, not that it just popped up one night.

[Hedu VF-143 0]

OK, 2 confirmed kills of Migs. Mig 15s, or Mig 9s? I am sure there are more battles between P-51s and Yaks. But this also confirms two points I made. That 1) encounters between Mustangs and Migs, in the scope of numbers, is miniscule. If the F-86s shot down almosy 800 migs, what is the percentage of Mig kills between Sabres and Mustangs? I can't do the math on it, but I know it involves whole numbers about 3 places to the RIGHT of the decimal. 2nd) it shows that a enemy that the Mustang had is not in the game for it to fight. No Mig 15s, no Yak Prop planes, no Mig Prop planes. Where is the fun of that. Playability is limited due to no historical adversary, and "what ifs" can only be interesting for while.

 

We should get a chat thing, eh Ranger? :)

[Guest Ranger332]

as was writtin a MIG 15 a jet not a prop

and as far as in the game I tallied 5 Mig kills with the P-51 3 on mig 17 2 on mig 21

 

currently doing a repaint in honor of the 332sqd

 

 

My first Mig kill in a P-51

[Hedu VF-143 0]

I guess you could say, you proved my point.

 

P-51 vs Mig 21, P-51 wins? Do you think that would happen much if it was in MP? Any pilot with boom and zoom knowledge would toast the P-51.

[Guest Ranger332]

rgr that but how meny forget in a furball and lose all speed they need to servive all it take is to maintain my upper airspeed which it turns out is the migs lower end airspeed and wait for thr right turn, most kills were with guns one was with havars rockets but it took all 6 to finaly get a hit.

just like the A-1H that got two migs in "The NAM" it can be done easy as long as you still have a wingman (without a wingman its alot harder got two kills once by going to ground to get more speed but the Mig 17s over shot and crashed those two kills are not in my tally)

 

here the winger got one but before I could get the one on his 6 he got nailed...soon after I finaly got a shot and splashed it

 

[Guest Ranger332]

later gota report in we can talk later

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Ranger, you said the word "turn". The Mig should NEVER turn. Thats the key, thats zoom and boom. The Mustang would be totally defensive. AI might try and turn with the Mustang, but any pilot worth his weight in beer knows not to turn. Strafe and extend.

[Denzil 0]

I don't understand this thing about the P-51 :?: Just as an example, I used to play Grand Prix 3 (play gp4 now) and I downloaded Ayrton Senna's 1993 McLaren and drove it around...I didn't race it, but I enjoyed going around in such a historic vehicle.

 

Same with the P-51, I think you'll find a lot of people will fly it just for fun, in free flight without heading off on the waypoints. If people choose to fight online with it, well then thats their problem :shock: but to say that, because of its lack of combat during this era it shouldn't be built is strange. The more the merrier? :D

 

I totally agree with you about the Flight models, and until we get the proper flight model editor we are stuck with the problem of FM's for each mod. (I check the e-mail each day expectantly waiting for updates from TK) I still don't think that should stop the mods from being built though!

 

I'm still in a little shock (been away from biohaz for a while), if this was at simhq it would have degraded into sledging loooooooong ago :D

 

Denzil

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Denzil, I could be bias, because my forte is WWII air combat sims, and there are mustangs everywhere in those. I fly Warbirds III, which has to have the closest-to-accurate flight model for the Mustang. I am fickle on the Mustang in this sim for the opposite reason this sim is popular. Sf has planes that weren't modeled since ATF, and then very arcadey. Very few sims with Phantoms, too many with Mustangs. And because there really isn't any theatre, enemy or historic airfields for the Mustang to take shape in, you might as well just be flying in FS2002. (which I do)

 

 

I like Biohaz, Denzil. We have had some pretty good discussions, and even when heated, they seem to stay under control.

 

So, got any inside info? 8)

[snapple2993 0]

wow, i guess this is a P-51 forum now.

[Starfighter 0]

Never! Death to the 'stang and all its adherents! LONG LIVE THE DORA-NINE AND THE GUSTAV! Muahahaha---I reckon you can figure whose aircraft I like to fly.

 

:D

[Gecko6 0]

Well this thread fell by victim to the same crap.

 

Flame MP and attack anyone that does not see your way.

 

Not setting a good example for your guys squadron. In my case you both have lost credibility.

 

Please do what you guys feel is needed but keep the "noise level down?"

 

I am not going to reply to this thread. So if you feel the need to flame me it will fall on deaf eyes.

 

I wish you guys good luck and success in your squads future. Sounds like it is not with Strike Fighters.

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Gecko, I don't think anyone is gonna flame you. I just don't understand your thinking that this thread "fell victim to the same crap".

 

Too bad you can't stick around to discuss issues and debate good naturedly. Like everyone else did.

 

Our future in this sim? Hard to tell. Kinda hard to have squad night when you can't do MP.

 

<S>.........................hehehehe

[Guest Ranger332]

you need to get and use the SFP1 launcher others are

and just host your own server and pratice

[snapple2993 0]

This squadron was created because of Stike Fighters, and no it will not die because of the mp issues. Not everyone in the squadron is having the same problems that I am having. Violator, and Shogunny, and I think Kidgalahad, are running it fairly well. As for the rest of the squad we are still working with it. Our practices are still on, and our dedication to this game has not waivered.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again, the posts that I have made on this thread, were an announcement of a vacation from the mp hassles, and yes I have tried mp since the original post.

 

It strikes me that gecko, overlooked my original post as mere ventilation, and as I complemented him on his writing abilities, he may have overlooked my feelings completely. Those feelings were reinstated with my third long post, this seemed to set him off (perhaps), as I did not complement him, again. He will not be flamed, and he is not being flamed now. But as he has chosen to leave this thread, he will not be able to see what I am writing.

 

This thread was created as a statement, it was turned into a discussion, which clarified a few things, and served to still blur a few aswell.

 

I pm'ed MJ on perhaps locking this thread (hence his post), as I the original author thought it may have been spiraling out of control, and could have possibly resulted in some bad blood being created. The loss of Gecko only serves to show me correct.

 

But then again thats the problem with posting in general, you get to many opinions from all sides, very little facts, and when opinions clash, people get upset, and usually no one comes out the victor.

 

I say again, this post was intended to be a statement, hence the "I" being used in the title, otherwise I would have titled it like this "Tired of the mp bullsh*t?", but I did not, and it would have suited me just fine if no one replied, just as long as I was able to show my frustrations.

 

I do not apologize for my words, as they represent my true feelings, and they hold in themselves what I as a gamer hold to be true.

 

These are my opinions, and if one wishes to agree or disagree with them, then they have that right. I would never demand anyone to agree with me, I only demand that one should make up their own mind, and do as they see fit, not as I, or a beta tester, or a game designer, or anyone in the world would see fit.

 

Do what YOU will with your copy of Strike Fighters, as for me, mine will stay ready at hand, as I am not going anywhere.

 

Jason Saffell

XO virtual VF-143

[Hedu VF-143 0]

Ranger, do you have a link for the launcher? I have tried several times by doing searches for it, and have had NO luck at all.