+NeverEnough 78 Posted October 23, 2007 Interesting article on MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21427173/ about an increase in F-16 crashes. For those currently serving in the USAF, do they really call F-16's "lawn darts", or is this just some more sensational coverage by the media? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,318 Posted October 23, 2007 Interesting article on MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21427173/ about an increase in F-16 crashes. For those currently serving in the USAF, do they really call F-16's "lawn darts", or is this just some more sensational coverage by the media? Yeah we call them Lawn Darts....but one thing they got wrong, our ops tempo is more than it was 5 years ago. We are flying 5 times the missions. Where they got the info that we are not is completely wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 23, 2007 The media aren't the only ones shortsighted like that. Take the insurance industry. A key factor in setting the rates we pay is loss ratios--how much premium they collect vs how much they pay out in claims. I forget what the "standard" is supposed to be. Maybe 70% or so? For every $10 you collect in premium, $7 goes out to pay claims. Of course, for publicly traded companies they want to lower that number. Anyway, this is linked to sales. If your sales fall, the amount of premium you collect will fall as well (because people switch away all the time, so you need new blood). Claims stay pretty steady, though. So if you're only collecting $7 now, but still paying $7, now your loss ratio is 100%! What do you think the smart option would be? Obviously, lower your prices so that you'll increase sales and pull in more premium. What do they do instead? They RAISE prices!! "Let's charge more!" Sure, that works in theory. They get more premium from existing customers, losses stay the same, back in the black. What do you do when your insurance company sends you a notice they're raising your rates? You start shopping around! They not only have sales fall more, but they lose more customers. Premium falls MORE, losses only fall a little (because just one person's claim will equal the premium for a year from 10-100 people), your loss ratio INCREASES!!! So they do it AGAIN!! It's amazing to me how they can stay in business sometimes being so dense. The media reports on things to the world that few know about. They're just as dense. We may get they're wrong, but no one has a platform to call them on it and the public at large believes it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 23, 2007 everyone across the services, except for the Lawn Dart pilots and maintenance crews, calls them Lawn Darts. the article is kind of funny in that at one point they claim, wrongly, that the flight hours are down and then turn around and blame the stress of increased ops tempo due to combat. Typical Treasonous Press at work...... and the press hacks wonder why no one in the services trusts them....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Viggen 517 Posted October 23, 2007 Weren't CF-116s in RCAF service called 'lawn darts" to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 23, 2007 Weren't CF-116s in RCAF service called 'lawn darts" to? I've heard the term applied to several aircraft, quite likely that was too. Anything that's "pointy" and has a less than stellar flight safety record gets "interesting names" assigned to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Viggen 517 Posted October 23, 2007 True. *cough*F-104*cough* Thing about the CF-116 was they had quite the clean record. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saganuay82 Posted October 23, 2007 CF5s rarely came down, well, maybe that guy in Cold Lake who forgot to set his flaps or the guy who buried his plane and himself under the permafrost. But compared to the 104, stellar record. But I mean more crashes? Well its hard to crash a plane sitting cold on the ramp, makes it easy when you start putting lots of them in the air alot more of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) Whoops, how do I delete this? Edited October 24, 2007 by ironroad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted October 24, 2007 This article maybe "fair and balanced" according to media standards, but they still failed to look at problems that are causing. The military operating in two different theaters in addition to stepping up and maintaining commitments at home and abroad. (i.e. service personnel protecting the lives of the very journalist, who will sell their souls for 15min of fame, that dog out the military so much.) The media is a fare weather friend with no alliances to no one (not even its own country.) As demonstrated before the media is putting down the military and government that it once praised so much. It is all about ratings and commercial endorsements, even it that means being a treasonous snake (reguardless of who or what is in office.) The American public at large isn't to bright either, because they do whatever the media tells them to do and are slaves to "pop" trends. Hollywood pop icons do not get nearly as much scrutiny and bad press as the military does. One group is a spoiled selfish attention brats who drink and drug to much, the other is a group of men and women who are giving up their lives for the greater good. ok...I think I got that out of my system, pheew.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+saint aj 0 Posted October 24, 2007 What the hell news are you watching? Al-Jazeera? I have never once heard the press in this country bad-mouthing our military. I turn on the news every night and the talking heads are lauding our soldiers, not cursing them; it's the political leadership that's being railed against. What part of reporting about aircraft going down is anti-military? I didn't see the article praising the insurgents, or calling our pilots evil or incompetent. The reporter didn't have his facts straight about the number of flight hours that are being flown---okay, fine, how does that make this an attack on the military? The article was about losing more aircraft due to combat stress and equipment failure. But, I suppose the facts hate America, don't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 24, 2007 What the hell news are you watching? Al-Jazeera? I have never once heard the press in this country bad-mouthing our military. I turn on the news every night and the talking heads are lauding our soldiers, not cursing them; it's the political leadership that's being railed against. What part of reporting about aircraft going down is anti-military? I didn't see the article praising the insurgents, or calling our pilots evil or incompetent. The reporter didn't have his facts straight about the number of flight hours that are being flown---okay, fine, how does that make this an attack on the military? The article was about losing more aircraft due to combat stress and equipment failure. But, I suppose the facts hate America, don't they? wow. words almost fail me. "I have never once heard the press in this country bad-mouthing our military." on what planet do you reside? think about this - several of us current and ex-military took offense at the tone of the article and cited innacuracies in the article. Isn't that enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Viggen 517 Posted October 24, 2007 Also people are calling our troops "phoeny Heroes" and General "Betrayus". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) Ok is there anyway to delete my comments, was not trying to start a war or even go down the road of political debate. Bad judgment on my part. Edited October 24, 2007 by ironroad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rovert97 1 Posted October 24, 2007 the whole lawn dart name hasn't really applied to the F-16 since the A models disappeared. the A models had a wire chaffing problem against screws and such, and since its a fly-by-wire plane, the wires would short or get cut, and the pilot would lose control and crash nose first most of the time. they said they fixed the problems with the newer C and D models. so the lawn dart term is a bit out dated for the F-16's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted October 25, 2007 Yet plenty of pilots still call them that. Just because a moniker is outdated doesn't mean it doesn't stick around. FastCargo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 25, 2007 Yeah, like all those rappers referring to "dames" and "broads." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IguanaKing 0 Posted October 26, 2007 (edited) Ok is there anyway to delete my comments, was not trying to start a war or even go down the road of political debate. Bad judgment on my part. Ironroad, I wouldn't worry too much about deleting your previous comments. You didn't say a thing that should have invited a political debate. I think you said it absolutely correctly, the media has no loyalty to anything but their ratings and the almighty buck. Its like any other trend. If bashing the military is in fashion at the moment, then that is what the media does, to improve their ratings. They know that the vast majority of their readers aren't going to know enough about the subject to call them on their inaccurate reporting. This is a bit of a problem, because "the truth" when its inaccurately presented, or deliberately distorted, tends to undermine the confidence the public has in the equipment our men and women are sent to fight in. Unfortunately, some of those uninformed masses are also among those who make decisions for our country...such as Senators and Congressmen. Irresponsible journalism can be harmful. Now that I'm in the civilian sector, I can tell you that the term "Lawn Dart" doesn't really have as much to do with a safety record as people may think. Lear 24s are known as Lawn Darts, and so are SA226s...and its got more to do with their shape than anything else. Edited October 26, 2007 by IguanaKing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 26, 2007 Just as the F-14's name of "Turkey" meant anything but. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
