Problem with Tornado Loadouts and Weapons Racks...

[+malibu43 142]

I discovered a weird issue with both the GR1 and IDS versions of the Tornado from the Tornado Package here at combat ace. I tried to trouble shoot this to the best of my abilities, but I have little understanding of the way weapons racks work in this game, so I didn't get very far. I'm hoping some of the resident loadout experts (*cough* Wrench *cough*) can maybe figure it out. I'll do my best to describe the problem, or at least tell you how to reproduce it.

 

Ok...

 

All the stock loadouts for the Tornados work fine*. If the loadout consists of 8 bombs, they are loaded on 4 hardpoints under the fueselage (Front and Rear, Left and Right center line stations) using 2BR dual bomb racks. At least I think they are the 2BR racks, since I don't know what one really looks like. If the default loadout consists of 4 bombs, they are loaded on the same hardpoints without the racks.

 

Here's where things get weird. If you change the loadout from the default one by changing the type of bomb, the plane ends up with a differnent rack once you start the mission. The rack is a long skinny one that runs the length of either the left or right underside of the fuse (two of the racks are loaded). Each rack holds 3 bombs. So you selected 8 bombs, but can only see 6 and have a different rack than the normal loadout would have. Then if you take off and drop the bombs, you'll find that there are actually 8 bombs loaded, it's just that the two last pairs are actually doubled up on top of each other.

 

So basically, if you change the type of bomb (even just from a MK18 1000lb to MK20 1000lb) it changes the rack and gives you a funky loadout with objects over lapping each other.

 

Like I said, I tried messing with the weapon station data in the data.ini, and played with the rack called out in the loadout.ini (which is the BRU57, USAF only and not available until 2002, that threw me off as well...), and that either didn't fix anything or made things worse.

 

So, any help from the experts would be appreciated. I would recommend looking at the files and trying to recreate the problem as I described it above, since that's probably the easiest way to see what's going on.

 

Let me know what you find! It's not a show stopper, but definitely takes away from the fun a little when things don't look right. Thanks!

 

*PS - I should also point out that I had to add W_Germany to the attachment type for 2BR in the weapon data.ini to get the default loadouts for the IDS to work. So if you want to get the default loadouts for the IDS to work to begin with, that needs to be fixed first.

Edited April 2, 2008 by malibu43

[Wrench 9,417]

Clarifications are required....

 

1) Which game?

2) most importantly -- which weapons pak???

 

The Toros were designed with ONLY Bunyap's in mind. If your trying to use it in WoI with the TMF pak, you'll have to add every single one of the specalized weapons, and racks needed.

 

When they were released, they were all set up already.

 

to answer som eother question:

The rack is a long skinny one that runs the length of either the left or right underside of the fuse (two of the racks are loaded). Each rack holds 3 bombs

 

Those are called "TERs" for Triple Ejector Rack. There's another real long skinny 2BR for the Mirage F1 and possible jaguar that may be appearing as well.

 

How about some screenies to show what's happening??

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+malibu43 142]

Clarifications are required....

 

1) Which game?

2) most importantly -- which weapons pak???

 

The Toros were designed with ONLY Bunyap's in mind. If your trying to use it in WoI with the TMF pak, you'll have to add every single one of the specalized weapons, and racks needed.

 

When they were released, they were all set up already.

 

to answer som eother question:

 

 

Those are called "TERs" for Triple Ejector Rack. There's another real long skinny 2BR for the Mirage F1 and possible jaguar that may be appearing as well.

 

How about some screenies to show what's happening??

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Sorry for not being more specific. I'm using WOE/WOV merged and bunyap's weps pack. My print screen wasn't working correctly, so I'll see if I can get it working for some screen shots.

 

I did a little more investigating, and found that the rougue bomb racks are not the TER's, but actually the long skinny 2BR's you're talking about. One gets loaded on each of the front stations, and one gets loaded on each of the rear stations, each with two bombs. The rear bombs on the front racks and front bombs on the rear racks end up overlapping, and that's why you only see 6 but can only drop 8.

 

So that kind of helps but the question is still why does any loadout other than the default replace the side by side 2BR with the in-line 2BR.

 

I'll work on some screenies.

 

I'm also trying to figure out what an accurate strike loadout would be for the GR1 and IDS versions, if anyone has that info...

[+malibu43 142]

Ok. The data.ini and loadout.ini are the default ones, with the exception of sidewinders being added.

 

The GR1 with default strike loadout (8 x MK18):

 

I then reflew the same mission, and did nothing but changed the MK18's to MK21's:

 

With the second loadout, you can only see 6 bombs, but the middle pair is doubled up, and I was able to drop 8. This pic shows the bomb dropping, and you can clearly see that another one is still there.

 

So, like I said above, it looks like for some reason, if you switch from the default loadout, it switches racks on you. This happens with attack loadout as well, if you try and load 8 BL-755's.

Edited April 3, 2008 by malibu43

[Wrench 9,417]

The only way to stop that from happening is the re-write the loadout ini for whatever bombs you want to use. That will keep the correct rack loading as well.

 

When you go in and change the load manually (on the loadout screen), you 'bypass' the rack statements in the loadout ini; the game engine sees a rack called for, and just grabs the next one on the list; in this case the MirageF1's (which may also appear on the Jag's). In this cases, it's not looking for "BRU57", per se, it's looking for "2BR" (2 bomb-rack)

 

So you can do one of 2 things:

 

1) leave the load alone, and keep the correct racks or

2) re-write the loadout ini, keep the MERs the same, and switch the bombs. --- provided the called for rack has the proper weight limits -- which can also cause them to unexpetedly swap themselves.

 

Remember, the loads for a given aircraft were 'issued' that way for a reason, usually something to do with the game engine, and how it treats things.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+malibu43 142]

The only way to stop that from happening is the re-write the loadout ini for whatever bombs you want to use. That will keep the correct rack loading as well.

 

When you go in and change the load manually (on the loadout screen), you 'bypass' the rack statements in the loadout ini; the game engine sees a rack called for, and just grabs the next one on the list; in this case the MirageF1's (which may also appear on the Jag's). In this cases, it's not looking for "BRU57", per se, it's looking for "2BR" (2 bomb-rack)

 

So you can do one of 2 things:

 

1) leave the load alone, and keep the correct racks or

2) re-write the loadout ini, keep the MERs the same, and switch the bombs. --- provided the called for rack has the proper weight limits -- which can also cause them to unexpetedly swap themselves.

 

Remember, the loads for a given aircraft were 'issued' that way for a reason, usually something to do with the game engine, and how it treats things.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

That makes sense now. Thanks!

 

One more questions though, what's the actuall model name of the rack that it's switching to? I don't use the Mirage, so if I deleted that rack, maybe it would default to the correct one instead?

 

Just an idea. I really like having flexible loadouts...

Edited April 3, 2008 by malibu43

[+malibu43 142]

Also some answers to my loadout questions here:

 

www.forum.keypublishing.co.uk/ archive/index.php?t-70667.html

[CJLivesey 2]

Not sure if you're still interested, but there is another work around for the Tornado belly racks.

 

This makes use of the assumption that there are no other UK BFT (bomb-fuel tank racks) and only dumb bombs need to be carried on the 8 pack.

 

Using the weapon editor create a copy of the BRU57 rack and rename something like BRU57UK. Keep all the parameters the same, except change it from a 2BR to a BFT rack type (with fuel capacity 0kg) and make it a UK only rack.

 

Then open up the Tornado Data file; edit the centreline stations (LeftCenterlineStation, RightCenterlineStation, LeftCenterlineStationRear & RightCenterlineStationRear) to call up the BFT rather than the 2BR racks or MER. I've also removed any fuel tanks called up on these pylons also to avoid confusion.

 

The last step is to open the Tornado loadout file and swap the racks from BRU57 to BRU57UK.

 

This will allow the BRU57 rack to be called up regardless of the dumb bomb type (if 8 bombs are selected) and still allow ASM, LGB etc to be carried when selected instead.

 

Hope this is useful?

[+malibu43 142]

Not sure if you're still interested, but there is another work around for the Tornado belly racks.

 

This makes use of the assumption that there are no other UK BFT (bomb-fuel tank racks) and only dumb bombs need to be carried on the 8 pack.

 

Using the weapon editor create a copy of the BRU57 rack and rename something like BRU57UK. Keep all the parameters the same, except change it from a 2BR to a BFT rack type (with fuel capacity 0kg) and make it a UK only rack.

 

Then open up the Tornado Data file; edit the centreline stations (LeftCenterlineStation, RightCenterlineStation, LeftCenterlineStationRear & RightCenterlineStationRear) to call up the BFT rather than the 2BR racks or MER. I've also removed any fuel tanks called up on these pylons also to avoid confusion.

 

The last step is to open the Tornado loadout file and swap the racks from BRU57 to BRU57UK.

 

This will allow the BRU57 rack to be called up regardless of the dumb bomb type (if 8 bombs are selected) and still allow ASM, LGB etc to be carried when selected instead.

 

Hope this is useful?

 

That would have been really helpful. Thanks!

 

What I ended up doing was finding the rack that was showing up when I changed loadouts, and switched it's place with the BRU57 in the weps data, so the BRU57 was listed first. Now if I switch loadouts, the game finds the BRU57 first, and it's usually used.