Friendly GroundUnits Not Going On Offensive

[Guest pfunkmusik]

Self-explanatory. I'm 10 missions into a campaign and my friendly units are not going anywhere. Funny thing, for the first five missions, I was flying battlefield CAP over my guys because the enemy GroundUnits were pounding the living crap out of my guys, so I know offensive movements can be triggered.

 

Wrench, maybe you can help because you built the terrain.

 

The 'bad' side's endgame target is Tunis. My side's endgame target is Benghazi. I would have picked Tripoli, but I was afraid the campaign might be over too quickly.

 

Here are my Forces mapped out:

 

[Force001]

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Nation=USAF

BaseArea=Camp Dido

AirOffensive[001].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[001].Secondary=WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[002].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[002].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[003].Primary=FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[003].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[004].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[004].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[005].Primary=FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[005].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[006].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[006].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[007].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[007].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[008].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[008].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[009].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[009].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[010].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE,BRIDGE

AirOffensive[010].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE,BRIDGE

StartGroundOffensive=8

StartInterdiction=0

Morale=80

Supply=40

NormalSupplyRate=28

OffensiveSupplyRate=-10

DefensiveSupplyRate=-3

SupplyForOffensive=70

AircraftReplacementTime=15

AircraftReplacement=30

GroundUnitReplacementTime=15

GroundUnitReplacement=100

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=7

StartAirDefenseLevel=3

 

[Force002]

Alignment=ENEMY

Nation=SOVIET

BaseArea=Benghazi

AirOffensive[001].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[001].Secondary=WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[002].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[002].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[003].Primary=FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[003].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[004].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[004].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[005].Primary=FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[005].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[006].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY

AirOffensive[006].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[007].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[007].Secondary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[008].Primary=BRIDGE

AirOffensive[008].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[009].Primary=COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR

AirOffensive[009].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE

AirOffensive[010].Primary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE,BRIDGE

AirOffensive[010].Secondary=LARGE_RUNWAY,MEDIUM_RUNWAY,COMM_BUILDING,EW_RADAR,FUEL_STORAGE,AMMO_STORAGE,WAREHOUSE,BRIDGE

StartGroundOffensive=0

StartInterdiction=0

Morale=100

Supply=100

NormalSupplyRate=24

OffensiveSupplyRate=-8

DefensiveSupplyRate=-3

SupplyForOffensive=50

AircraftReplacementTime=30

AircraftReplacement=30

GroundUnitReplacementTime=30

GroundUnitReplacement=100

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=15

StartAirDefenseLevel=3

 

And here are the strategic nodes:

 

[strategicNode001]

Area=Camp Dido

ConnectTo[001].Target=Camp Hamilcar

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=131474.0, 616844.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Camp Hannibal

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=121513.0, 581257.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Djerba

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=173306.0, 628706.0

 

[strategicNode002]

Area=Camp Hannibal

ConnectTo[001].Target=Nalut

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=152390.0, 514827.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Wittyah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=193227.0, 550415.0

 

[strategicNode003]

Area=Camp Hamilcar

ConnectTo[001].Target=Camp Hannibal

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=135485.0, 575326.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Wittyah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=197211.0, 558718.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Zuwarah

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=216135.0, 583629.0

 

[strategicNode004]

Area=Nalut

ConnectTo[001].Target=Camp Hannibal

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=135458.0, 549228.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Wittyah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=197211.0, 527876.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Mizdah

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=264940.0, 493475.0

 

[strategicNode005]

Area=Wittyah

ConnectTo[001].Target=Camp Hannibal

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=143426.0, 559905.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Mizdah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=525000.0, 729000.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Tripoli

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=267928.0, 550415.0

 

[strategicNode006]

Area=Mizdah

ConnectTo[001].Target=Banif Walid

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=315737.0, 480427.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Tripoli

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=301792.0, 534994.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Wittyah

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=232071.0, 532621.0

 

[strategicNode007]

Area=Banif Walid

ConnectTo[001].Target=Mizdah

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=304780.0, 480427.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Misratah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=401394.0, 530249.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Al Qaryah ash Sharqiyah

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=333665.0, 425860.0

ConnectTo[004].Target=Ghurdabiya

ConnectTo[004].BasePoint=501992.0, 426633.0

 

[strategicNode008]

Area=Tripoli

ConnectTo[001].Target=Misratah

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=399799.0, 542282.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Zuwarah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=255603.0, 565847.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Banif Walid

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=334225.0, 496351.0

ConnectTo[004].Target=Wittyah

ConnectTo[004].BasePoint=239210.0, 551069.0

 

[strategicNode009]

Area=Misratah

ConnectTo[001].Target=Tripoli

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=328872.0, 564649.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Banif Walid

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=356306.0, 489561.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=Ghurdabiya

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=543660.0, 464398.0

 

[strategicNode010]

Area=Ghurdabiya

ConnectTo[001].Target=Banif Walid

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=367346.0, 478777.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Al Qaryah ash Sharqiyah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=367012.0, 412076.0

ConnectTo[003].Target=As Sidrah

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=590163.0, 448821.0

 

[strategicNode011]

Area=As Sidrah

ConnectTo[001].Target=Ghurdabiya

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=567079.0, 452815.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Marsa al Burayqah

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=670123.0, 406485.0

 

[strategicNode012]

Area=Marsa al Burayqah

ConnectTo[001].Target=As Sidrah

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=613917.0, 432446.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Ajdabiya

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=722649.0, 428851.0

 

[strategicNode013]

Area=Ajdabiya

ConnectTo[001].Target=Marsa al Burayqah

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=697223.0, 413274.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Qaminis

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=739712.0, 472386.0

 

[strategicNode014]

Area=Qaminis

ConnectTo[001].Target=Benghazi

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=728335.0, 511445.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Ajdabiya

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=735737.0, 446115.0

 

[strategicNode015]

Area=Benghazi

ConnectTo[001].Target=Qaminis

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=729921.0, 496611.0

ConnectTo[002].Target=Ajdabiya

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=744990.0, 442327.0

 

Any tips?

 

pfunk

[Stick 773]

Check the subsequent posts and their respective links in this thread. Baltika and ezlead put my campaign which was going very awry into the right perspective.

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=28862

 

It will cast light on why no offensive seems to be forthcoming from the friendly side

Heres a quick look see at what ezlead helped me with

 

My take on: ForcewithInitiative=?

The side of the conflict which initiates the offensive action. 1 means that the friendly forces initiate the action. 2 means that the enemy side initiates the offensive. 0 means that neither side initiate action until the supply number is high enough to sustain a ground operation.

At least in my campaigns,that seems to be the way it works. If you increase the the supply numbers the ground operation seems to start sooner.

If you notice,as you fly progressive missions,you get more supplies(missiles,bombs,etc)in the loadout screen for a mission.

In the Israel campaigns,they had a limited amount of supplies,so you have to be careful about how much you ordinance you expend.

It all depends on the number of supply when you start and how often you are resupplied.

 

And this gentleman was dead ON!

Edited June 6, 2008 by Stick

[+Baltika 84]

Hi pfunk,

 

The most significant value in your set-up, as I see it, is the difference in StartGroundOffensive= values for enemy and friendly forces. As I understand it, this figure is the number of airoffensives (i.e. Strike Missions) which must be launched before your ground forces will go on the offensive. And, no ground offensive will be launched unless your overall Force supply value is equal or greater than the SupplyForOffensive= value, again as defined for each force.

 

Looking at your start values, the enemy force has StartGroundOffensive=0, so no strike missions need be launched before the ground forces go on the offensive. And, the enemy force start supply value is 100, while the enemy SupplyForOffensive value is 50. Again, this means the enemy side do not need to wait for their supply levels to build up before launching an offensive. No wonder the bad guys are pounding you mercilessly

 

Compare the position with your Friendly force. StartGroundOffensive=8, so you have to fly 8 strike missions before the ground offensive starts. You get one push, and if that stalls, you have to start the counter again, so you need to fly another 8 strike missions before the ground troops get moving. And you will not get any ground offensive unless your force supply value is 70 or greater. Your friendly force start supply value is 40, so that force has to build up supplies before it can launch a ground attack.

 

The whole issue is complicated by the fact that individual ground units have their own supply and morale values, which make an offensive more or less likely. But the above will hold more or less true.

 

All of these values can be played with to meet specific scenario demands, depending on what conflict you are modelling.

 

I would suggest reducing the friendly side StartGroundOffensive= value to 2 or 3, and see if that helps. That will mean the bad guys attack first, and the friendly side will need time to take stock and prepare to counter, but you shouldn't have to wait ten missions for the friendly ground offensive to start.

 

Bear in mind you have to start a new campaign before any changes will be effective.

 

Oh yeah, if the enemy are battering away each "turn," the friendly side won't have a chance to build up supply, as supply levels are reduced or increased by the "stance" each force is in. These values are fixed by the various SupplyRate= flags under each force. Being continually on the defensive means your friendly side's overall supply level is eaten away by -3 points each turn, so they won't get anywhere near the required 70 points. If you increase the enemy StartGroundOffensive= value to 1, then at least you get a short breather between ground attacks - while they hammer you from the air

 

Hope that helps. Check out those links Stick mentioned, as TK covers the whole shebang in detail on the Thirdwire forums.

 

Cheers,

 

Baltika

Edited June 6, 2008 by Baltika

[Guest pfunkmusik]

I appreciate all the help, guys. I'll tweak it a little after I get a chance to read TK's comments and show you guys what I have.

 

pfunk

[Guest pfunkmusik]

Here's the new values.

 

Friendly...

StartGroundOffensive=3

StartInterdiction=0

Morale=80

Supply=40

NormalSupplyRate=28

OffensiveSupplyRate=-10

DefensiveSupplyRate=-3

SupplyForOffensive=100

AircraftReplacementTime=15

AircraftReplacement=30

GroundUnitReplacementTime=15

GroundUnitReplacement=100

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=7

StartAirDefenseLevel=3

 

Enemy...

StartGroundOffensive=2

StartInterdiction=0

Morale=100

Supply=100

NormalSupplyRate=24

OffensiveSupplyRate=-18

DefensiveSupplyRate=-12

SupplyForOffensive=100

AircraftReplacementTime=30

AircraftReplacement=30

GroundUnitReplacementTime=30

GroundUnitReplacement=100

RandomTransportType=ANY

WeaponResupplyTime=15

StartAirDefenseLevel=3

 

pfunk

[ezlead 42]

PFunk:

You also have to take into consideration your mission rate and offensive mission rate.

According to your supply rate you will go through 3 resupply cycles(Supplyrate=7) before you can mount an offensive. The enemy has enough supply to start immediately,and will be resupplied 1 time(Supplyrate=15) while you are still waiting to be supplied enough to start.

If your missionrate= 7(Same as supplyrate=7) you will fly 3 missions before you have enough supply to start an offensive.

You have to juggle the numbers to get what you think is your kind of campaign.

I get bored flying a lot of missions(Over 20) so I put in a startcampaign date and endcampaign date.

Usually 6 months seems to work right(180 days)for me, divided by 20 equals a missionrate of 9.(9 days between missions)

I make the offensive missionrate 3(3 days between missions).

You also have to adjust your ground unit start times to coincide with your offensive dates.

 

It sounds complicated,but not really. You have to think the entire campaign through from start to finish to get what you want. (Sometimes I win and Sometimes I don't)

It also depends on whether you like a lot of CAS or a lot of Air to Air or to mix it up.

Get StrikeFightersEditingInfo by Charles and some other brilliant CombatAce Modders,it contains a lot of very useful info. Also, the Knowledge Base by a lot of brilliant modders has a tremendous amount of useful info.

I modify almost every campaign that I fly,so I'm getting pretty good at it.(After several years of flying this fantastic Combo flight sim)

 

PM me here at Combatace with more questions if you like.

 

ezlead

[Guest pfunkmusik]

PFunk:

You also have to take into consideration your mission rate and offensive mission rate.

According to your supply rate you will go through 3 resupply cycles(Supplyrate=7) before you can mount an offensive. The enemy has enough supply to start immediately,and will be resupplied 1 time(Supplyrate=15) while you are still waiting to be supplied enough to start.

If your missionrate= 7(Same as supplyrate=7) you will fly 3 missions before you have enough supply to start an offensive.

You have to juggle the numbers to get what you think is your kind of campaign.

I get bored flying a lot of missions(Over 20) so I put in a startcampaign date and endcampaign date.

Usually 6 months seems to work right(180 days)for me, divided by 20 equals a missionrate of 9.(9 days between missions)

I make the offensive missionrate 3(3 days between missions).

You also have to adjust your ground unit start times to coincide with your offensive dates.

 

It sounds complicated,but not really. You have to think the entire campaign through from start to finish to get what you want. (Sometimes I win and Sometimes I don't)

It also depends on whether you like a lot of CAS or a lot of Air to Air or to mix it up.

Get StrikeFightersEditingInfo by Charles and some other brilliant CombatAce Modders,it contains a lot of very useful info. Also, the Knowledge Base by a lot of brilliant modders has a tremendous amount of useful info.

I modify almost every campaign that I fly,so I'm getting pretty good at it.(After several years of flying this fantastic Combo flight sim)

 

PM me here at Combatace with more questions if you like.

 

ezlead

 

Where do I find the StrikeFightersEditingInfo by Charles? Is it in the downloads section or the KB?

 

pfunk

[+NeverEnough 78]

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/CharlesEAW/sfpage.html

 

Pfunk, the link posted is for Charles EAW site where the SFP1 Editing Notes file is located towards the bottom of the page.