Editing Wings Over Vietnam

[Manfred Albrecht Freiherr 0]

Hey guys,i just wanna know if its possible and if someone could teach me how to change those enemy aircraft what im targeting,because i find fighthing an f-15 on mig-21 is quite unfair and quite easy to lock,so is it possible i can change their planes into mig-21 to f-16(for example)

[Basher11 0]

Hey guys,i just wanna know if its possible and if someone could teach me how to change those enemy aircraft what im targeting,because i find fighthing an f-15 on mig-21 is quite unfair and quite easy to lock,so is it possible i can change their planes into mig-21 to f-16(for example)

 

Manfred,

You have brought a really good topic here. You will find in all the games in the Third Wire series, aircrafts are not proprtional to their real world counterparts. For example, you will find an AI MiG-21 shoot down a F-22 in the game USING just GUN!!

 

Whilst most of the features of the game are historically accurate without modification, because the game actually emphasizes on close distance dogfighting, so close dogfighting capable aircrafts like MiG-21 stands a good chance to dedeat a once state-of-the-art fighter like the F-15 or F-16.

If you want your F-15 to be "backward compatible" with the the MiG-21, just change the INI file to make the MiG-21 invisble to you and yourAI wingmen.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Basher11

[Manfred Albrecht Freiherr 0]

Admin,

 

Thanks for the help!,what i meant is to change my enemy aircraft to a modern aircraft(F-15's) like that, hope its possible.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Manfred Albrecht Freiherr

[+lindr2 19]

MiG-21bis has good chance to kill F-16C BlC50 in close dogfight be cause:

 

MiG-21Bis normal fly mass is 8726KG * 9.8 - 85514 N (Empty mass 5460 KG), engine trust is 1 х 69600 N dry,1 х 97100 N wet ->

 

69600 N / 85514 N -> 0.81 normal MAX

 

97100 N / 85514 N -> 1.13 on forcing engine.

 

F-16C Bck50 normal fly mass is 12003 KG * 9.8 - 117629 N (Empty mass 8273 KG), engine trust is 1 х 79200 N dry, 1 х 129400 N wet ->

 

79200 N / 117629 N -> 0.67! normal MAX

 

129400 N / 117629 N-> 1.10 on forcing engine.

 

P.S. You can also check another planes...

Edited June 8, 2008 by lindr2

[kukulino 1]

Hey guys,i just wanna know if its possible and if someone could teach me how to change those enemy aircraft what im targeting,because i find fighthing an f-15 on mig-21 is quite unfair and quite easy to lock,so is it possible i can change their planes into mig-21 to f-16(for example)

Wellcome here at CA, pilot :yes:

 

Well it is unusual what you want (I mean change enemies to F-15/16 etc.) But it is possible. But too much work, if you starting with modding. I see another way: use modern soviet planes. Su-27 for example: http://marcfighters.combatace.com/

 

We are waiting for new Mig-29A model from Mirage factory. But in Download section are some older models too.

 

 

And there is very, very, very nice Mig-21Bis WIP in community.

We have edited Mig-21MF model into Bis role in WOI for this time.

Edited June 8, 2008 by kukulino

[+whiteknight06604 931]

in addition the Mig-29 and Su-27 make excellent enemies for the F-15there are many Mig-29s here in the download section and the Su-27 is at the Marcfighter site. here http://marcfighters.combatace.com/

[Fubar512 1,350]

MiG-21bis has good chance to kill F-16C BlC50 in close dogfight be cause:

 

Any MiG-21bis would be badly outclassed by even an early F-16. The 21's inferior power-to-weight ratio, the slow response rate of its engine to throttle inputs, it's propensity for adverse yaw at high roll rates, and it's limited internal fuel capacity (not to mention the rather limited visibility from the cockpit of later '21 models), would all but render it a sitting duck in a dogfight against a modern opponent.

[+lindr2 19]

Any MiG-21bis would be badly outclassed by even an early F-16. The 21's inferior power-to-weight ratio, the slow response rate of its engine to throttle inputs, it's propensity for adverse yaw at high roll rates, and it's limited internal fuel capacity (not to mention the rather limited visibility from the cockpit of later '21 models), would all but render it a sitting duck in a dogfight against a modern opponent.

 

Good speach, good example of American PROPAGANDA, but facts talk about reverse:

 

- "the slow response rate of its engine to throttle inputs" - is TRUE for SM,MF and others, Bis modification fix this problem, MiG-21Bis can accelerate form 550 kmph to 1100 kmph at 18 sec, Max vertical speed is 225 m/s;

 

- "and it's limited internal fuel capacity" F-16 has 3100 Lt fuel, mig-21Bis - 2900 Lt

 

- "propensity for adverse yaw at high roll rates" - NOT FULLY TRUE, MiG-21 has turning stabilisator

 

In 1996 romanian AF make MiG-21 Lancer, based on MF modification, more bad what BIS, they ahange only radar and navigation, in 1999-2001 Romanian pilot win championship godfights vs F-16C two times.

 

In 1982 war Syrian MiG-21bis and MiG-23MF Shootdown 6 F-16A, F-16A shootdown 7 Su-22, 1 MiG-23MF, 1 Mi-8, 4 Gaselle

 

In Afganistan war Pakistanian F-16 shootdown Su-25, MiG-23MLD from escort kill him.

 

NOW WHO WAS SITTING DUCK?

 

P. S. My Favorite american plane is F-15C - very good enemy, only Su-27 and MiG-29 can fight with him.

P.P.S. But i dont like MiG-29 series, famous russian aviation scecialists say: ... too small plane for big deal.

[MigBuster 2,861]

Good speach, good example of American PROPAGANDA, but facts talk about reverse:

 

In 1996 romanian AF make MiG-21 Lancer, based on MF modification, more bad what BIS, they ahange only radar and navigation, in 1999-2001 Romanian pilot win championship godfights vs F-16C two times.

 

In 1982 war Syrian MiG-21bis and MiG-23MF Shootdown 6 F-16A, F-16A shootdown 7 Su-22, 1 MiG-23MF, 1 Mi-8, 4 Gaselle

 

In Afganistan war Pakistanian F-16 shootdown Su-25, MiG-23MLD from escort kill him.

 

 

Im afraid these are NOT facts in any way shape or form and we know all governments are prone to lying (or propaganda as you call it) - or even SPIN as its called over here - that does not change the real fact that there is no conclusive proof to confirm these events.

 

For example what you are implying is that Israel covered up their F-16 losses by importing extra jets from the States and giving them the same serial numbers as the ones shot down so no one will know better! OK what if they did - there is no way to prove it - its just someones word against someone elses.

 

Ok lets take the Mig-21 Dogfight win against an F-16C:

 

What block version of F-16C?

What weapons did each side have?

Who was flying it? ( for example a good pilot in an F-4 would probably beat a rookie in an F-16 guns only)

What circumstances/rules were they fighting under?

 

You need to gather the exact circumstances involved before stating that an airframe from the late 50s is superior to one that was designed specifically to destroy the Mig-21 in close combat - because none of your arguments hold any substance.

 

There are many many factors that could have decided the outcome

 

 

 

As another example about information with no evidence or substance behind it - look at this quote from Wikipedia:

 

MiG-21-97

MiG-21-93 upgrade. MiG-21-93 re-engined with Klimov RD-33 engine. Russians have claimed that the evaluation at Ramenskoye Airport had shown that this version had beaten simulated F-16 in mocked dogfight with a score of 4:1.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-21

 

 

 

They may as well have written "My mate shot down 4 F-16s playing Wings Over Isreal" for all the relevant information that gives us!

Edited June 9, 2008 by MigBuster

[Fubar512 1,350]

Wow, talk about propaganda.....

 

BTW, an F-16C holds 7000 lbs of fuel. Jet "A" weighs in at 7 lbs per US Gallon, so, 7000/7 = 1000 gallons. There are 4.546 liters per US gallon, so the internal capacity of an F-16C is 4546 liters (not 3100). Also, the F-16C's turbofan engine is much more fuel efficient than the MiG-21bis's turbojet, and has superior acceleration below 10,000 feet BALT.

 

BTW, the Pakastanis claim that the F-16 killed BOTH MiG-23s on that incident, and that their sole F-16 loss was due to friendly fire. Or, how about the fact that over 30 Syrian MiG-23s were killed by the Israelis (between 1982 and 1985), with no losses on the Israeli side?

[+lindr2 19]

Wow, talk about propaganda.....

 

BTW, the Pakastanis claim that the F-16 killed BOTH MiG-23s on that incident, and that their sole F-16 loss was due to friendly fire. Or, how about the fact that over 30 Syrian MiG-23s were killed by the Israelis (between 1982 and 1985), with no losses on the Israeli side?

 

Above 80% ISRAELI COMBAT REPORTS IS PROPAGANDA, IS NORMAL IN THE WAR. Israel is little brave country, surrounded by enemy, keeping high morale in the war, more important what true.

 

In accordance OFFICIAL SOVIET MILITARY OBSERVERS REPORTS only confirmed Israeli air combat losses in 1982-1985 was

 

6-12 june 1982 - 42 planes (>5 F-15A, >6 F-16A ) syrian AF lost 54 planes - 4 MIG-23MS, 6 MiG-23MF, 26 MiG-21Bis, 7 Su-22, 11 Mig-21MF, most planes killed by F-15A and F-4E, in example all 4 MIG-23MS killed by F-4E with lost 2 F-4E. But most Syrian planes was export modifications planes, with the worsened characteristics.

 

In october 1983 new MiG-23ML with R-24 shootdown 3 F-15A and 1 F-4E with no losses.

 

RUSSIA IS MY COUNTRY, I work for MoD and create new radars for Russian planes, and I MUST trust official records, be cause I'M NOT betrayer.

 

SORRY but i have full text of USSR AF losses in Afganistan, Only 2 MiG-23 was lost in ALL WAR

 

27.12.85 MiG-23ML 655 IAP v. Jabal us-Sarag AAA, pilot killed

21.06.85 MiG-23ML 905 IAP s. Kandagar Stinger, pilot killed

 

But first meeting F-16 and soviet planes was in 1986.

[kukulino 1]

I am affraid that it is lost fight... Mean discussion about official reports and with arguments based on them. Let's go shoot on imperialists or communists over virtual skies. And let official reports on historians :yes:

[Fubar512 1,350]

Really, F-15s shot down in real air-to-air combat? Show us the wreckage, surrounded by gleeful Syrians. Truth is, you can't, because it did not happen. The F-15 still has a perfect A2A record.

 

You see, here in the US & the west, our free press (much as we malign it), will scandalize even the slightest hint of a government coverup, and goes absolutly ballz-to-the wall ballistic over any alleged misinformation. In short, it pretty much serves as a BS filter for government or pro-military propaganda.

 

Notice any lack of a coverup or disinformation regarding Israeli losses during 2006 in Lebanon?

[Silverbolt 104]

About the "Propaganda"....

 

-i've read about one unconfirmed kill of one MiG-23 in beeka valley in 82 (Ok, i really doubt if real happens, but someone posted that)

 

-in 1991, one F-18 flow by Lt . Speicher(is that right?) was shooted down by an Iraquian MiG-25, but the press said it was one SAM, btw, in that area wasn't any SAM site in the Area

 

-In a misunderstanding dropped by Argentinean government in Falklands war, 2 Sue's hit the Invencible with 4 Exocet missiles(really doubt again)

 

-in Iran-Iraq War, 6 Mirage F-1 hunted one F-14 and shoot down it with more than 12 Super 530 Shots.

 

-Still in Iran-iraq, one F-14 shooted down 3 MiG-23 and damage one more with a Phoenix shooting in a low and closer formation .

 

I think every thing is possible, but the Media will not always cover all facts, it can omit some facts and with that i give advantage of some side of history.

 

isn't just the equipment that influentiate in air combat results, Strategy and good training certainly will give a chance for smallest Air force flying with an old plane.

just to figure how Strategy is important......

 

in 1991 or 93 Brazil Mirage IIIEBs "shooted down" several times (or i should say all?) french 2000s.... why?

Brazil pilots studied the fail in 2000's Radar.

 

very different era planes with a technological abyss with different expected results.

[+lindr2 19]

American press is FREE ? Sorry i will never believe in it, USA is finance & military monster, i respect American nation, but I hate the American politics, history did not know greater hypocrisy. In 1982 was cold war US use any way to compromate USSR, during war any things is GOOD.

 

US "Free" press to many times write horrible lies about my country, about things which I saw by the eyes, I CAN'T TRUST THEM AFTER THAT.

[Fubar512 1,350]

US "Free" press to many times write horrible lies about my country, about things which I saw by the eyes, I CAN'T TRUST THEM AFTER THAT.

 

Yeah, OK, whatever..............

[MigBuster 2,861]

RUSSIA IS MY COUNTRY, I work for MoD and create new radars for Russian planes, and I MUST trust official records, be cause I'M NOT betrayer.

 

 

It has nothing to do with Betraying your country - NOBODY in any country should believe 100% of what they are told by their government - particularly when it comes to war.

[+lindr2 19]

I find 100% checked information about Pakistanian F-16 who "Shootdown" 2 MiG-23MLD

 

It was 12 sep 1988 pakistanian pilot Halid Mahmud attack at East from Asadabad MiG-23MLD 120 IAP, pilot Sergey Privalov, soviet planes take little damage from aim-9 and succsesfuly landed on Bagram airbase. Halid Mahmud get 1 confirmed and 1 probabbly Kill.

[Silverbolt 104]

It has nothing to do with Betraying your country - NOBODY in any country should believe 100% of what they are told by their government - particularly when it comes to war.

Ditto!

 

Napoleon once said:

"History is made by winners"

Edited June 10, 2008 by Silverbolt

[New Guy 1]

Sorry it didn't match up with air combat reports that you guys are talking about, just thought I'll share some of my experience...

I've been mauled by MiG-29A when flying F-14A in WOV, even when the AI enemy skill are set to "easy". 4 vs. 4 and the casualties were only 1 MiG-29, while all F-14 in my flight were downed

Guess I'm not good for air-to-air flying...

[+lindr2 19]

 

Try Su-22M vs F-14 or Su-22 vs F-14 like in Lybia in 1986 !!!

[Caesar 305]

Sorry it didn't match up with air combat reports that you guys are talking about, just thought I'll share some of my experience...

I've been mauled by MiG-29A when flying F-14A in WOV, even when the AI enemy skill are set to "easy". 4 vs. 4 and the casualties were only 1 MiG-29, while all F-14 in my flight were downed

Guess I'm not good for air-to-air flying...

 

Either smack them in the teeth (hit 'em at long range), or get 'em low and slow and drop the Big Boys (flaps). Works well for me even on hard. Now if they've still got heaters...then it gets interesting...

 

EDIT: Back on topic, Manfred, definately check out Marcfighters and the Modern Era A/C section here to fight newer, tougher opponents. The Flanker and Fulcrum should not disappoint you if you're looking for a challange in your Eagle/Viper/whatever.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Caesar

[Gunslinger One 0]

aside from downloading modern soviet fighters you could get the challenge you are looking for by editing the data of an f-16. open the f-16_data.ini then add SOVIET to the nation and each of the weapon station of that bird. then add the f-16 to the koreanwar_data.ini(for example). hope that works for you

Edited June 21, 2008 by Gunslinger One