Hords of SPADS in june 1916 and the Eindecker

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

again starting my umpteenth campaign in the german air service with a Fokker E.III Eindecker and dying every time usually during the first patrol, this time i encountered flights of SPADS, hords of them (certainly died again). Hm i really wonder how any german airman could have ever shot down any plane apart from a BE2b/c with an Eindecker in 1916. B.t.w. didn't the BE had some defence to the rear - observer in the front standing up and using the rear m.g. ? If they do not even evade an inch while someone shoots at them, i would at least expect some defensive gunnery ?

 

I do not know too much about the real behaviour of this E.III bird (apart from being nimble, needing constant rudder input etc.), but you will get not even one shot at any allied plane in june 1916 (yes, apart from BE...). The manouevering is so outright bad and sluggish, mostly you cannot even roll back into neutral position after having once banked slightly to the right. If the E.III stalls (and the whole flight is some kind of fighting against stalls) it does it in a real strange way.

 

Allied superiority is enormous in 1916, i am sure the US must have already joined the war. Anyone who speaks of a "Fokker scourge" surely has not experienced reality in OFF lol. I wonder if such dogfights with 15+ SPADS and 6 additional Nieuports really reflect what was going on in the skies of june 1916 ?

 

Flying for the allies held no peril at all up to now, i shoot down imperial german planes all the time, only thing is my claims are never accepted. This claim report is a bit strange. Do i have to be a native english speaker to fill anything in, or are there some certain words you have to use ? Is there an OFF manual where this claiming procedure is described ?

 

Sorry, just had to vent, reading Olhams's post i can exactly imagine how he feels - and i thought things might get a bit better with an Albatros lol.

 

Greetings,

Catfish

 

I am using XP pro with SP3, on a dual core pc with 2 Gb of Ram

[Olham 164]

Hi, CATF.... ähh; WELS

The Eindecker is really difficult to fly. I had made one good flight, with Immelmanns even, but most manoeuvers need

more energy, which I gained by giving up hight. I even managed to cripple a Bristol Scout so much, that it stole away.

But the wingmen then shot me up.

Yes, I'm beginning to wonder, too, if this all can be right. My earliest campaign is with Jasta 2, flying the first available

Albatros D II (end of September 1916). We're largely outnumbered almost every time, and enemy comes always from

above, or so it seems. I wonder, if the devs flew enough German side to understand, what we mean?

I read, that the D II, when it came, was superiour. But I don't notice much of that (except the firepower); it's rather

humble flying. Now I know, that the Nupes were much more agile, but the D II was actually 20 km/h faster, which would

make a great difference. But these N 11 always come after me without falling behind.

I think, Pol flies the Albatros sometimes. Hope, he would change things, if he'd find them wrong.

But when the heart beats rather for the Allied side, it may be difficult to be objective, and there are no veterans left to

ask for test flying here.

Anyway - what can I do? I love this sim, and I'll carry on doing my best...

Don't loose your optimism. And try the D II. Much better for fighting!

Cheers. Olham

[Siggi 10]

I think some of the planes are just no-hopers when flown by the player. Flying the DH2 against AI EIIIs, they are like UFOs. Switch to EIIIs and fly against DH2s, the DH2s become the UFOs. The AI seem able to get incredible performance out of certain planes, such that the era in which they appear becomes no-go territory for the player.

 

Moving on to later planes and the player is more able to fly the plane nearly as well as the AI, and in certain cases can do better than the AI. I can't fly the Alb DV series as well as the AI, but I can fly the Camel better than the AI.

 

The DH2 is just about doable, but you're going to go down if you meet a sizable number of DIIs or EIIIs (eg, a flight of two or more in greater number than your own). I wouldn't touch a campaign flying the EIII with a pole.

 

The Pup is a perfectly viable campaign platform (and transitions to the Camel, if you live long enough), and I may try a German campaign starting with the Halb or DII.

[+Winder 32]

Hello,

 

again starting my umpteenth campaign in the german air service with a Fokker E.III Eindecker and dying every time usually during the first patrol, this time i encountered flights of SPADS, hords of them (certainly died again). Hm i really wonder how any german airman could have ever shot down any plane apart from a BE2b/c with an Eindecker in 1916. B.t.w. didn't the BE had some defence to the rear - observer in the front standing up and using the rear m.g. ? If they do not even evade an inch while someone shoots at them, i would at least expect some defensive gunnery ?

 

I do not know too much about the real behaviour of this E.III bird (apart from being nimble, needing constant rudder input etc.), but you will get not even one shot at any allied plane in june 1916 (yes, apart from BE...). The manouevering is so outright bad and sluggish, mostly you cannot even roll back into neutral position after having once banked slightly to the right. If the E.III stalls (and the whole flight is some kind of fighting against stalls) it does it in a real strange way.

 

Allied superiority is enormous in 1916, i am sure the US must have already joined the war. Anyone who speaks of a "Fokker scourge" surely has not experienced reality in OFF lol. I wonder if such dogfights with 15+ SPADS and 6 additional Nieuports really reflect what was going on in the skies of june 1916 ?

 

Flying for the allies held no peril at all up to now, i shoot down imperial german planes all the time, only thing is my claims are never accepted. This claim report is a bit strange. Do i have to be a native english speaker to fill anything in, or are there some certain words you have to use ? Is there an OFF manual where this claiming procedure is described ?

 

Sorry, just had to vent, reading Olhams's post i can exactly imagine how he feels - and i thought things might get a bit better with an Albatros lol.

 

Greetings,

Catfish

 

I am using XP pro with SP3, on a dual core pc with 2 Gb of Ram

 

 

The next time you get these Spads in 1916 can u send me the mission file :

 

Campaign mission file found in \CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields\missions\historical - OFF_Camp_Mission.xml

 

I suspect the Spad 7 is used as a place holder but need to confirm - I may revise this.

 

Also make sure in Workshops that you have Aircraft Spawn control in Campaign column (middle section) set to OFF Campaign.

 

Send the mission file to support@overflandersfields.com

 

Ta

 

WM

[77Scout 3]

There was along post back on the SOH Forum about flying the Eindecker. If you loose roll control (stuck in a side bank) the trick is to slow down and roll control will return. The roll-lock simulates increased resistance wing warping with high air speed over the wing perhaps? Also turn with heavy use of the rudder. Still not easy but I have been able to turn-fight with a Nieuport 11 and survive.

 

Regarding numbers of aircraft...

 

The Fokker Scourge lasted from mid 1915 to mid 1916. During that period the main advantage of the Eindecker should be their numbers and their firepower. The Entente had some good planes like the N11 but they should generally show up in small numbers and of course carry little ammo.

 

After July/August 1916 the scourge is basically over and flying an Eindecker should become increasingly hazardous due to increasing numbers of FE2b and DH2 pushers and the N17 arriving. In the fall of 1916 the Spad 7s, Pups arrive and the Fokker pilots are pretty well decimated until the Albatroses arive to save them.

 

I believe OFF is supposed to model the ebb and flow of firepower by tweaking sizes of flights and number of flights for the combatants, but I have no specific information on how it works.

[Hoghead 0]

I think some of the planes are just no-hopers when flown by the player. Flying the DH2 against AI EIIIs, they are like UFOs. Switch to EIIIs and fly against DH2s, the DH2s become the UFOs. The AI seem able to get incredible performance out of certain planes, such that the era in which they appear becomes no-go territory for the player.

 

Moving on to later planes and the player is more able to fly the plane nearly as well as the AI, and in certain cases can do better than the AI. I can't fly the Alb DV series as well as the AI, but I can fly the Camel better than the AI.

 

The DH2 is just about doable, but you're going to go down if you meet a sizable number of DIIs or EIIIs (eg, a flight of two or more in greater number than your own). I wouldn't touch a campaign flying the EIII with a pole.

 

The Pup is a perfectly viable campaign platform (and transitions to the Camel, if you live long enough), and I may try a German campaign starting with the Halb or DII.

 

If I had one thing that I had to say bothers me the most about OFF, it would be the fact that the AI does not have to adhere to the same laws of physics and aerodynamics that the player does. Having said that, the flip side of the coin would be that if they did you'd be racking up 10 kills a sortie. Unfortunately AI technology still is still many many years from being on a par with the human player. That's one of the reason multiplayer is so much more popular than single player games for most people. I would still like to see OBD take a look at all the early aircraft, the EIII, DH-2 and also even the Alb DII specifically. I'd really like to see these planes become more viable at least in their time frame.

 

Scott

[Siggi 10]

If I had one thing that I had to say bothers me the most about OFF, it would be the fact that the AI does not have to adhere to the same laws of physics and aerodynamics that the player does. Having said that, the flip side of the coin would be that if they did you'd be racking up 10 kills a sortie. Unfortunately AI technology still is still many many years from being on a par with the human player. That's one of the reason multiplayer is so much more popular than single player games for most people. I would still like to see OBD take a look at all the early aircraft, the EIII, DH-2 and also even the Alb DII specifically. I'd really like to see these planes become more viable at least in their time frame.

 

Scott

 

I'm not sure how much the average pilot would have been able, or prepared, to chuck his plane about in the sky. At least not until he'd flown a good number of hours in it, and even then. Probably only a very small minority were able/willing to do what we players do as a matter or course.

 

In the real war, if we'd flown in that as we do in the sim, we'd have been the most notable of aces with a list of kills as long as our arm.

 

So un-naturally competant AI does do a valid job of keeping us 'honest'.

[Rick Rawlings 128]

To help out with kill claims:

 

Mention aircraft type: i.e. "Nieuport 11" or "Sopwith Camel"

 

I also seem to get better results using the following words:

 

ammunition

machine gun

crashed

engaged

expended

front

seen

witnessed

altitude (list the altitude as well, example: "1000 feet of the deck"

flight

squad

tree-top

flames

out of control

direction, example: "North of the front lines"

followed

jumped

fought

 

Usually two sentences with many of the above words and my wingman properly listed puts me in the 68-80 value for my pending score.

Example: "Was jumped by a flight of Nieuports west of the front. Fought them from 5000 feet altitude down to the tree tops. After expending 200 rounds ammo into the enemy a/c, one was seen to crash out of control on our side of the lines." Something like this gets me about three quartes of my kills confirmed.

Hope that helps.

 

I also avoid Eindecker squads like the plague. But then you go to the DII Albatross and it's almost criminally easy, as Olham will attest :)

 

 

 

RR

[Rickitycrate 10]

Thanks for the list Rick. I will give it a try. Some Be2c-EIII action shots

[77Scout 3]

the AI does not have to adhere to the same laws of physics and aerodynamics that the player does.

 

I have seen Polovski post about the difficulties getting the FMs tuned correctly so it works for both the player and the AI, which I alsways interpreted (perhaps wrongly) as there is only one FM used by both.

 

However, I too have begun to suspect that maybe the AI us a different FM than the player, or has some other physics boosts, as Scott has mentioned above.

 

Just wondering which is the true state of affairs, if someone in the know can shed a bit of light.

[+Winder 32]

In campaign some craft are showing up too early - fixed for 1.28 - thanks Geier for the help!.

 

I will build this tonight and release as 1.28.... and then I will continue my break.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=37934

 

 

WM

[Wels 2]

Hello,

thanks all for the valuable information, and certainly to Winder intending to correct this - i was not quite sure, from the "invention" date of the SPAD VII it would have been possible to appear in mid-1916, if not in those numbers.

My regrets to Winder, i did not play again until today, but it seems Geier already provided the file you asked for.

 

Concerning the Eindecker - do you guys think i should auto-trim it for better controlling ? I usually do not use auto-trim at all, or any trim at all - takes away some special features of certain planes - i think the dev team knew what it did regarding flight models. Only this rolling to the left with the E.III seems impossible sometimes ..

 

Thanks a lot, also for the claim report info - so i should generally enter the altitude in feet, not meter, or 0,6 kilometer or so it seems. I take it the time provided by the "Z" button is correct if you enter this in the claim report. Do i have to use . or , for altitude ?

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[Geier 0]

Not sure of what I did but glad I could be of help!

[Olham 164]

Hey, Rickity,

did you change over to the Brits - or were you the Eindecker pilot?

[Rickitycrate 10]

I'm in the Be2c this go around. If you want to understand your enemy take a turn in his crate I say. I fly them all eventually for every side.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Well, I'm not sure if I am doing something different from others, but I have been able to keep up with the AI in nearly every scout I have flown so far. The DH2 will most definitely turn inside the EIII, but must not try to fully follow the Einie in the zoom-stall-turn the AI is so fond of using. And in the case of the Halb, if I can get on his six I can match my DH2 with him turn for turn and get more than enough firing solutions to do the job. It is not until the Alb scout shows itself that I have to rethink engaging the AI with the DH2. The Airco in OFF loves rudder input and will allow you to turn it very tightly if applied properly.

 

Of course, biding your time and not committing to an attack until you have a target that has strayed from the pack is essential for survivability since the last thing you want is for one or more of his wingies to pop up on your six while your attentions are directed elsewhere. Accurate gunning is the other very big factor as it allows you to be much more effective and concise with your attacks. I am sure Guynemer and Richthofen would both strongly agree on this last point. :yes:

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Rick Rawlings 128]

I'm in the Be2c this go around. If you want to understand your enemy take a turn in his crate I say. I fly them all eventually for every side.

 

 

If you are flying a plane as homely as the Be2c, you deserve to be shot down. I've considered dropping a few of the ones I've escorted just to put them out of their useless misery!

 

RR