Harrier´s Roadrunner Method?

[macelena 1,070]

I learned, from an article about the AV-8S Harrier, of a comms/navigation/attack feature wich was implemented in "Matador" aircraft for the Spanish Navy,known as "correcaminos" (roadrunner).

 

It would have been developed using SAGE and DIANE technology (not sure about the last) wich could have employed the extra antenna those Harriers had, and used to vectorize aircraft into targets while in radio silence, having been employeded succesfuly in exercises with foreign battle groups. Admiral defined the sistem as a "predecessor of Datalink". I couldn´t find anything else on it

 

Does any of you know anything about this? Could this feature have been present on AV-8C, wich, IIRC, had also the extra antenna? Or any other aircraft using it?

Edited June 15, 2009 by macelena

[+ST0RM 145]

SAAB/Swedish Air Force was using a form of datalink way before most other countries. So it is indeed possible. Interesting news.

 

-S

[+SkippyBing 8]

Strangely the RN's AEW Gannets had a form of data link called Busboy in the '60s. Mind you we didn't regain the capability until the Sea King 7 entered service at the start of this century!

[eraser_tr 29]

Wouldn't the AV-8S have had CCIP like the british/USMC harriers and be more effective with it instead of using a bombing system derived from DIANE?

[+Typhoid 231]

"Or any other aircraft using it? "

 

various forms of data links have been in widespread use since the 1960's. Integral to tactical air ops certainly in both the USAF and USN, and a lot of other countries across the world.

 

Oddly enough, the USAF dropped its data link capability between the Link-4A until Link-16 was finally fielded (two decades late!) while the USN expanded its use dramatically. Essentially, almost everything that flew in the USN used Link-4A and later Link-16.

 

I would routinely control surface search and air to air with one way link, and two way with the F-14 and later F-18.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Typhoid

[macelena 1,070]

Wouldn't the AV-8S have had CCIP like the british/USMC harriers and be more effective with it instead of using a bombing system derived from DIANE?

 

 

I fact the CCIP capability is something i would like to include in the next release of the Spanish Navy Pack for the AV-8S, as far as i´m assured they had it. Last version uses a cockpit previous to 70 avionics. The use of DIANE brought me doubts, but perhaps it was nothing but a navigation sistem wich could be updated in flight in a certain way. Or perhaps a way of night attack capability, wich i doubt the early harrier had.

Edited June 15, 2009 by macelena

[Southernap 1]

SAGE or Semi-Automated Ground Enviroment was a system developed by NORAD to basically datalink all the various radar sites to a central location and have the operators control the intercept of Soviet Bombers via both a radar and voice comms to an intercept.

 

DIANE was an attempt to intergrate both the navigation and bombing computers together via a databus system so that the trigometery of dropping a bomb from a jet aircraft to hit a target was computed with minimal input from the operator. It was also designed to allow the operator to blind bomb heads down looking only at the displays inside the cockpit and not depend on outside references outside.

 

It sounds very much what your describing is attacking via a radar becon. Which is a pretty interesting system. Basically a ground force has a radio transmitter and transmits in a certain frequency which if the aircraft has a special radio tuned into the freq it will present on the radar scope as a target or it will display on the ILS system and all the pilot needs to do is fly to that point (either the target or to center up the ILS needles) and as soon as the plane is in range then the operator on the ground will give some final steering cues before telling them when to drop the bombs.

[+331Killerbee 840]

Been around the Harrier's most of their Career. The AV-8A's had a CIP......Not a CCIP. A Caculated Impact Point in the HUD. Also it had ILS. But there wasn't any Computer or Radar in the AV-8A's, AV-8C's and VA.1 "Matador's". The only "First Generation" Harriers to have Radars was the GR.3 and the FRS known as the "Sea Harrier". The "Matador" (AV-8S VA.1) got the same Package as the U.S. Marine Corps did in 1971. It's a AV-8A with a Nose Camera and SEAM Boxes installed on the Outboard Pylons to take advantage of the AIM-9L G&C. The USMC Dropped the Nose Cameras in 1974. The AV-8C was a AV-8A with RWR Installed. RWR Blisters were added on the Wing Tips and Stinger Tail for that Mod. The extra Antenna is a addational Powered UHF for clear Comm for CAS Missions. Same Antenna used by the USAF Thunderbirds on their T-38's durning the 70's. I've worked on the AV-8A's, C's, TAV-8A's, GR.1's GR.3's, FRS 2's, AV-8S, AV-8B's and TAV-8B's. I don't doubt there is a System called "Roadrunner" used by the Spanish Navy. It must have been done by the Spanish alone. It's not a System that I'm aquantied with. And I'm sure it's not a System developed by BAE or McDonnell Douglas/Boeing for I would have been trained on it. As far as Datalinking Harriers, It was never done or has been done to My knowledge. Either First Generation or Second. Yes, The AV-8B has a onboard Mission Computer and has true CCIP. And it also received Radar in USMC Harriers in 1992. I've never known of VSTOL Aircraft having Data Linking ever. But the F-35 might change that.

 

 

Which leads Me to this.......The Cockpit for the Harrier in SF2E is wrong. Only the GR.3 or FRS (FRS 51 also) had Radar Screens in first generation Harriers......The one Moddled in Game is of a GR.1.It never had a Radar nor a Radar Screen in the Cockpit in "Real Life". RWR on the AV-8C's was just a "Light" that lit up on the Canopy Rail. That's all.....

 

 

331KillerBee

Edited June 16, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[macelena 1,070]

The AV-8A's had a CIP......Not a CCIP.

 

So, if i finally get the next release of the Spanish Navy Pack, should the AV-8S get a 70 avionics

or that from the sixties?

 

I don't doubt there is a System called "Roadrunner" used by the Spanish Navy. It must have been done by the Spanish alone.

I supposed, by the Admiral´s words, that these sistem was used only here, but i wanted to learn if

there was something wich served the same way, or where did that tech come from. I´´ try to see if the

final artifact was made in the USA, or in Spain by Indra corporation, or by the own spanish navy. I guess

that if someone else was using that, the foreign battlegroups would have known how to counter it effectively.

[+SkippyBing 8]

I think the Sea Harrier F/A2 got Link 16 at some point so it could talk to the Type 42/CVS and the Sea King ASaC. But probably not until the late '90s.

[+Crusader 2,050]

I've read about "Roadrunner", but it was a attack profile/method , not some hardware stuff.. IIRC.

SF2E Harrier GR.3 has no radar. The big screen on the center console is the moving map which is part of the FE 541 Inertial Nav/Attack System

The Harrier pits have some minor compromises for gameplay though....

Only Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 had AI radars, Blue Fox and Blue Vixen, respectively.

[macelena 1,070]

I've read about "Roadrunner", but it was a attack profile/method , not some hardware stuff.. IIRC.

 

Can you tell something about who employed it? How was it executed or something like that?

Edited June 20, 2009 by macelena