AI va Player Aircraft Engine Power

[Slipstream22 0]

Question for Polovski or any other OFF player that has an answer:

 

How come the AI aircraft has a engine power advantage over the player aircraft? No matter how I set the player aircraft engine control features or on auto in the workshop that the AI aircraft is capable of steap dives without tearing off it's wings or stalling as the player aircraft. I understand that the OFF team did a wonderful development job in setting up the limitations of the player aircraft to mimic the actual WWI aircraft performance but all AI aircraft appears to have an engine power performace advantage no matter the aircraft type. Is there a switch set up in the workshop that at least puts the AI aircraft within similar performance faults and limitations as the player aircraft or is that the way the OFF sofware is set? I swear that the Fokker DVII performs like a P-51 Mustang sometimes when I'm persuing it in my SPAD XXIII!!!! Comments?

[Red-Dog 3]

Hi slipstream, i've been lead to belive that the AI aircraft don't get effected by wind ect so they always seem to have a advantage,it's a CFs 3 thing that can't be altered at this time.

[Olham 164]

I think, Red Dog is right there about the wind.

All you can do is to set mixture control to "auto mixture" in workshop, and fly always lead.

 

Although - with a SPAD XXIII you shouldn't have problems? (Lol!)

Edited September 26, 2009 by Olham

[77Scout 3]

The wind can either be an advantage or a disadvantage...just depends what direction you are flying.

 

AFAIK the AI bullets are just the same as the players; they do not have any extra destructive force.

 

I personally don't see the AI planes having a big advantage over the players, but would be interested to know definitively if the player and AI Flight Models are actually the same or different.

[Olham 164]

A difference I see every day for sure is, that the AI Nupe 17 or Albatros D III / D V

don't shed their wings in a steep dive - very unfair, if you ask me.

But I compensate that by shooting one wing off them - then they also have problems (Lol!)

[Olham 164]

Well, I flew around a towering cumulus to sneak up on AI craft I had noticed, before they

disappeared behind it. They didn't seem to see through the cloud, although my settings

are on 1 only.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Olham

[Bullethead 12]

Welcome aboard, Slipstream! New guy buys the drinks

 

How come the AI aircraft has a engine power advantage over the player aircraft? No matter how I set the player aircraft engine control features or on auto in the workshop that the AI aircraft is capable of steap dives without tearing off it's wings or stalling as the player aircraft.

 

To be honest, I find it very difficult to rip the wings off a plane myself. And this is with realistic flight models and structural failures enabled, and deliberately trying to break the planes in QC to know where their limits are. I have only been able to break planes by doing things I would never do in actual combat. Hence, it never happens to me in the real thing, and as a result, I have no problem with it never happening to the AI. The AI here is good, so knows where to draw the line. If you're ripping your wings off, therefore, I submit that you're doing something wrong.

 

I also don't see a difference in AI vs. player engine power. Humans have a natural tendency to enduce more drag than is necessary, such as by using 2 controls at once. Read your Shaw. Bank, then pull. Move the joystick like a chess rook, never like a bishop. You'd be surprised how much difference this makes in getting more vertical out of you plane. I submit that the AI is smart enough to do things Shaw's way, and thus will keep its E better than humans who don't follow this rule.

 

All in all, it seems to me that the AI flies right on the edge of its plane's envelope, but never over it. Most humans can't hold so fine a line, so are either below it and the AI out-performs them, or are across it and thus break their planes or stall out. But if you can hold that line (which means you have carnal knowledge of your plane's envelope, something that only comes with experience), you'll find the AI doesn't do anything supernatural, and that you can match it move for move.

[Guest British_eh]

Well Uncleal, you are right, on 5, the clouds hide everyone, and I have flown past the enemy, as close as 2 miles away, nobody see's anything.

 

As for the AI, it's not the engine, it's the FUEL load. They have 0, nada, nothing, so they are quite a bit lighter. I always take minumum fuel load, ( when in a German uniform), even if it means landing at another aerodrome, hopefully on your own side :). This is in keeping with the German pilots who stayed on their own side of the Front, and took enought fuel to see them through, and no more. The Brits however, were flying into Hunland, and had a headwind on return, and so were always at weight disadvantage. Perhaps this was the operational reason why the Brit's early aircraft only had the weight of one gun?

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[Hasse Wind 46]

Turning off wind effects is fortunately possible in the workshop, so at least this is one of the AI advantages that we players can also have.

[Hasse Wind 46]

To be honest, I find it very difficult to rip the wings off a plane myself. And this is with realistic flight models and structural failures enabled, and deliberately trying to break the planes in QC to know where their limits are.

 

I've lost wings from Nupes a couple of times in combat, but it can be easily avoided when you know what you're doing. With the other planes (including the Alb D.III and D.V), you have to be really hard on your crate to make their wings go kaputt.

[Olham 164]

BH: I have only been able to break planes by doing things I would never doin actual combat.

Hence, it never happens to me in the real thing, andas a result, I have no problem with it never happening

to the AI. TheAI here is good, so knows where to draw the line. If you're rippingyour wings off, therefore,

I submit that you're doing something wrong.

I have had breaking wings many times, when I simply tried to follow the moves of AI Nieuport 17.

I thought, when they can do this manoeuver, I should also be able to do it. That is not so - the AI

wings just never break from stress.

My Albatros lower wings do already break, when I follow a craft in a spiral 30° dive plus bank, and try

to follow the opponent, when he pulls out of it. My wings break, his won't.

 

Of course I don't have the problem, since I just avoid those movements. But I don't think it's realistic.

[Fortiesboy 3]

Humans have a natural tendency to enduce more drag than is necessary, such as by using 2 controls at once. Read your Shaw. Bank, then pull. Move the joystick like a chess rook, never like a bishop. You'd be surprised how much difference this makes in getting more vertical out of you plane. I submit that the AI is smart enough to do things Shaw's way, and thus will keep its E better than humans who don't follow this rule.

 

 

 

Now that is very interesting ! I am going to try this in my flight from now on. In fact, thinking about it, i might have been doing it, even though I am trying to move the stick like a bishop- I've never actually analysed it - but will do now.

 

Thanks Bullethead.

 

As for this, British,eh -

" As for the AI, it's not the engine, it's the FUEL load. They have 0, nada, nothing, so they are quite a bit lighter"

 

I fly mainly QC and not campaign, and found out long ago that in the uisel file I can give the enemy planes some fuel, thus some performance hit, maybe?..

I suppose it don't work in campaign- maybe, maybe not!

[Bullethead 12]

I have had breaking wings many times, when I simply tried to follow the moves of AI Nieuport 17.

I thought, when they can do this manoeuver, I should also be able to do it. That is not so - the AI

wings just never break from stress.

My Albatros lower wings do already break, when I follow a craft in a spiral 30° dive plus bank, and try

to follow the opponent, when he pulls out of it. My wings break, his won't.

 

Let me play the Devil's Advocate here......

 

Assume for the sake of argument that the N.17 AI knows exactly where its plane will break and flies just an RCH below that point. IOW, if the AI pulls just 0.0001g more, it will break, but it can hold just below that point due to being accurate to lots of decimal places.

 

Now, you're chasing him in this turn. To line up for a shot, you have to use lead pursuit. This means you have to turn tighter than the target, inside his turn, to get your nose in front of his. This forces you to pull more Gs than the target. Thus, if the N17 and Albatros wings fail under the same load, or even if the Albatros wings are a little stronger, you will enter the breakage zone. Hence, your wings break and his don't.

 

This is just a theory, but it's plausible, it matches observations, and it's been used in other games by both AIs and very good MP players.

[Flyby PC 23]

As I recall, I think British Eh is correct, but it's not just fuel, it's also the weight (or lack of it) of ammunition carried.

 

It's the same 'advantage' you get in multiplayer dogfights. If the host sets fuel and ammo as unlimited, you never run out, so load your aircraft with 0% fuel and no ordinance. You still have both, but your aircraft isn't burdened with the weight and flies accordingly.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Bullethead wrote:

To be honest, I find it very difficult to rip the wings off a plane myself. And this is with realistic flight models and structural failures enabled, and deliberately trying to break the planes in QC to know where their limits are. I have only been able to break planes by doing things I would never do in actual combat. Hence, it never happens to me in the real thing, and as a result, I have no problem with it never happening to the AI. The AI here is good, so knows where to draw the line. If you're ripping your wings off, therefore, I submit that you're doing something wrong.

 

I also don't see a difference in AI vs. player engine power. Humans have a natural tendency to enduce more drag than is necessary, such as by using 2 controls at once. Read your Shaw. Bank, then pull. Move the joystick like a chess rook, never like a bishop. You'd be surprised how much difference this makes in getting more vertical out of you plane. I submit that the AI is smart enough to do things Shaw's way, and thus will keep its E better than humans who don't follow this rule.

 

All in all, it seems to me that the AI flies right on the edge of its plane's envelope, but never over it. Most humans can't hold so fine a line, so are either below it and the AI out-performs them, or are across it and thus break their planes or stall out. But if you can hold that line (which means you have carnal knowledge of your plane's envelope, something that only comes with experience), you'll find the AI doesn't do anything supernatural, and that you can match it move for move.

 

 

I agree completely with your assessment here Sir. I have discoverd during my stick time in OFF that to be as good as or better than the AI requires a lot of practice in each and every crate. After six plus months the only BHaH kite I feel I've really mastered so far is the Camel, and am currently working on doing the same with the DH2. But once you truly do know what your mount can and can't do there's not an AI pilot in the OFF skies that can out-class you, and that's with or without his wingies helping him. I am now regularly going up against four DR1 aces with my Camel in QC, allowing them the alt advantage, and still winning the contest more often than not. Now that's some kind of white-knuckle fun...oh yeah!

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

Bullet, the devil's advocat has a plausible logic.

[Bullethead 12]

I agree completely with your assessment here Sir. I have discoverd during my stick time in OFF that to be as good as or better than the AI requires a lot of practice in each and every crate. After six plus months the only BHaH kite I feel I've really mastered so far is the Camel, and am currently working on doing the same with the DH2. But once you truly do know what your mount can and can't do there's not an AI pilot in the OFF skies that can out-class you, and that's with or without his wingies helping him.

 

Don't call me "Sir"; I was just a humble Sergeant of Marines .

 

But I'm with you on the time necessary to to master a given bird. Using the traditional 4-color belt system, I rate myself a black belt in Pups and Fees, brown in Camels and D.VIIs, green in SPADs, and white in everything else. The outline of the flight envelope of each different ride is limned with the blood of many short-lived pilots, and unless you stick wtih a given crate through a dozen or so pilots in a row, you won't retain the lessons learned by so much sacrifice.