Question to our German Friends

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I was wondering (as Tact and Niceness is the new face of the Widowmaker) ....how the Germans on the forum feel about being called 'Huns?'

 

Obviously, during times of conflict, that our nations have endured in the past, derogatory terms for the enemy are expected...

But the term also seems apt in some way, because our Simulator is set in the time when this term was in everyday use I suspect.

 

I personally, feel no personal affront about being called a 'Krumpet, or a Limey...Pom etc.... But there were rather more unpleasant terms to describe people from opposing sides in WW2 (the Likes of which are still occasionally used in the 21st Century, and I have no wish to repeat them here!)

 

I have no reason to suspect, that any of the Germans on the forum have any real concerns about the term being used, but would be interested to hear what you guys REALLY think!

 

I only hope I have not misread the situation, as I don't think calling anyone unpleasant names that hurt their feelings is a nice trait in a person, and it's a fine line between a jovial comment, and a hurtful one!

 

What do you guys think?

[Von Paulus 8]

Good post UK_Widowmaker.

I, myself have already wonder about that. How did our German mates react to this?

There are other terms, that was used in a lot of Portuguese comics of WWII, that called the Germans as boches, Jerry or Kraut.

Are they really depreciative?

[Olham 164]

To be honest, it sometimes touches me a bit to be called "the dark side", although, in my good moods,

I even used it myself, when doing my alter ego, the Hollywood-type Bordeauxred Baron.

I don't think, one side was any darker than the other. For me it seems, both sides did much the same

job doing their duties, and had excellent characters as well as unpleasant ones.

 

"Huns" is no problem for me, although it comes from a pretty nasty propaganda poster, showing a Hun-like

German soldier trampeling over the world, scaring the other side with his bajonett.

We must not forget, that all the other grand nations had previously also conquered other people's terrains

to become as whealthy as they where: the Romans as well as the Portugese, Spanish, French and British -

everyone had trampled into other people's homelands and just ruled over them, as long as they could.

 

When Germany had developed to that strength for expansion, it was actually too late for such behaviour.

It meant to fight all those, who already had their colonies, or to conquer terrain from your neighbours,

who had treaties to help each other in case of war. That fight was impossible to win.

The big tragedy is, that it seems it still had to be tried, to REALLY understand it's whole impossibility.

The one good result of the two so terrible wars is in my eyes, that everyone understood, this could not be

a way anymore - never again.

The technological development today makes expansion on terrain even unnecessary for the achievement

of general whealth. And I'm glad about that, and I hope it will never change again.

 

Oh my - a small, naive article about recent history, I'm afraid.

Well, as for the "Huns" - it was a saying in those days, and we "sim" those days, so it's okay for me,

old chap and 'crumpet'.

[Bullethead 12]

I'm not a German, but you could stretch the question to include "how do our US friends like being called 'yanks'?", which covers me.

 

Being from the South, I'm most definitely not a yank, and calling me one is rather like calling a Scot an Englishman . HOWEVER, I realize that "yanks" is the generic term used by Euros (and US yankees, for that matter) for all Americans. This was certainly true in WW1, as shown by such songs as "The Yanks are Coming".

 

So, in a forum where everybody's role-playing a pilot passionately engaged in a very bloody shooting war, I take no offense at being called a "yank". I see it as an endearing element of immersion in this forum and of OFF. I'll of course have to say something like "who are you calling a 'yank', buddy?", but it's all in fun as I see it.

 

 

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I'm not a German, but you could stretch the question to include "how do our US friends like being called 'yanks'?", which covers me.

 

Being from the South, I'm most definitely not a yank, and calling me one is rather like calling a Scot an Englishman . HOWEVER, I realize that "yanks" is the generic term used by Euros (and US yankees, for that matter) for all Americans. This was certainly true in WW1, as shown by such songs as "The Yanks are Coming".

 

So, in a forum where everybody's role-playing a pilot passionately engaged in a very bloody shooting war, I take no offense at being called a "yank". I see it as an endearing element of immersion in this forum and of OFF. I'll of course have to say something like "who are you calling a 'yank', buddy?", but it's all in fun as I see it.

 

Goodness yes BH...I merely used the German Guys as an example really, as the word 'Hun' get's used here more than 'yank' or 'Limey'...but of course, just as relevant to all races on the forum

[itifonhom 6]

Hello fellow OFFers,

 

I'm not a German, so I can't really add anything positive here. Although I generally disagree with Olhams' point of view on this matter, I wouldn't like to start a WWI debate here. :-). What I'd like to add though is, that actually, giving names to the enemy, reveals a need to strengthen the own lines and thus shows weakness. If someone can crush another, doesn't start to insult him, he just crushes him. I think all these names are a good way to see how unsure and afraid actually people were those days, that tried with names to stay up to the task.

 

itifonhom

[Olham 164]

Paulus,

the "Boche" comes from Bosch, I assume, one of Germany's large and early successful companies

for electric technology, like AEG or SIEMENS. I assume, there was a Bosch label on many machines,

so it became a name. Nothing insulting in it.

Same for "Kraut". Maybe, the other nations did not eat Sauerkraut very much; I think, it's more eaten

east from us. When the French and British saw it, it must have been a strong (or sour) first impression,

so they made a name of it. Nothing insulting in there, too.

 

Do you know, what "Yanky" and "Jerry" come from, Bullet?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

'Jerry' I believe had something to do with the German's Helmets...looking like a Childs Potty or 'Jerry'

[Uwe 0]

I can't imagine it's any worse than being called a "Yank" when you live in the South. Not to get into the whole North vs. South debate but when people think the South was the "bad guy" in that conflict I really just have to roll my eyes about it a little and move on as I feel it was a struggle for independence based on states rights, not slavery. The South's Constitution was virtually identical to the North's and outlawed the importation of slaves. Slavery was legal on both sides at the begining of the conflict so. So I've never been able to understand why the South was labeled the bad guy except that they lost. I guess that why I've always had sympathy for Germany in WWI...not so much WWII. I think Austria got Germany into that conflict. Kinda like two buddies hanging out and getting drunk together and one goes off and bad mouths a group of bikers and his friend gets dragged into it because he was there for his friend.

 

When my 5 y/o son asks who the bad guys were when he plays with his four WWI planes I tell him that no one was the bad guy in that war. It just happened because of a really bad mistake by leaders on both sides. The guys in those planes fought for their squadronmates more than anyone else for the most part.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

You can call me anything you like, just don't call me late to supper.

 

.

 

 

[Olham 164]

Uwe, it may comfort you, that I used to like the two sides of the civil war.

I liked the blue uniforms more, but I felt a sympathy for the "rebels", cause they

fought for their side with a lot of passion, although the big industry (building the

big cannons) was on the other side.

 

No, we should really get away from "the good and the bad" guys. War is not a

fairy tale, is it?

[Bullethead 12]

Do you know, what "Yanky" and "Jerry" come from, Bullet?

 

Yankee:

Theories abound about this word's origins. Everybody seems to agree that it's a bastardization of some word borrowed from another language, but nobody agrees on which word from which language. The main candidates are several Dutch derivations and a couple of Indian words. My personal favorite is that it comes from the Cherokee word eankke, which means "coward" .

 

Jerry:

As I understand it, this was coined by the Brits. They liked to take the 1st syllable of a nationality's name and end it with an "ee" sound, such as with "Ities" for Italians. If you do this with "Germans", you get "Geries", which of course sounds just like the common name "Jerry", so they spelled it that way instead.

[itifonhom 6]

About the "Jerry" I think you're fully right BH. As far as I know, from this derives also the word "Jerrycan" which is actually a "German Canister".

 

itifonhom

[+Paarma 0]

I have long time ago heard that "hun" is coming from german first name "Hans" that was quite popular name that time meaby even today...

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

'Hun' has been used since Roman Times hasn't it?

 

I will concede to you guys better knowledge re: Jerry....But I can tell you that my eldest Brother, who was born in Baden in 1948, certainly did use the outer shell of a German Helmet as a potty when out on family trips!..as my Parents were working there in 1948...for this reason, the said Item never made it's rightful place in our family as an Heirloom...And I strongly suspect, was tossed in a pond somewhere in Germany in 1950 on their return to Blighty

[Olham 164]

Perhaps it was the other way round, Widow - the name "Jerry" for the Germans was already there,

and then used for children's potties.

Here are some examples for the way propaganda works. The less human being you draw the enemy,

the more easy will it be to kill him. On all sides, writers and illustrators where used to influence people's

oppinions. The German Third Reich propaganda did that to a terrible extent with the Jews.

 

 

[Mike Dora 171]

Actually it was the Kaiser himself who created the term "Hun", unwittingly presenting a gift to the allied propegandists.

 

In a speech to his troops heading for China to deal with the Boxer Rising in 1900, he declared: "No quarter will be given, no prisoners will be taken. Let all who fall into your hands be at your mercy. Just as the Huns a thousand years ago, under the leadership of Etzel (Attila) gained a reputation in virtue of which they still live in historical tradition, so may the name of Germany become known in such a manner in China that no Chinaman will ever again even dare to look askance at a German." (from the Times, 30 July 1900)

 

In any case, as pointed out by WE Johns, creator of Biggles, "Hun" usually wasn't intended as a derogatory term by the average British serviceman. It was simply their name for the enemy. Incidentally, the RFC/RAF flying instructors also called their pupils "Huns", because they destroyed so many British aircraft!

 

Mike

[itifonhom 6]

"Briths sailors, look, read and remember"!!!!

 

Hahahahahaha, I'm sorry guys but that's ridiculous! Hope we don't have any British sailors here!! It's amazing to see how naive people were those days. And if you project all this to prasent day, how naive we are believing all this sh*t we see everyday on tv!

 

Wonderful posters you got there Olham, I really apreciate your archive!

 

itifonhom

[Rickitycrate 10]

I find that this topic is a reflection of the maturity and respect that the forum members possess for the history and diversity among our members. Frankly I think where no offence is intended none should be taken. OFF brings us into the historical period and we engage in the period in various ways. When I am "playing " the part of a Brit flyer I use what my Minnesota mind believes to be Brit terms from the times. I wonder if I offend with my stereotypical language. Then I remember I am among men that know what I am trying to do and so I don't worry about it. I must say that anyone with the nature to offend others in this forum have not stayed here long. Or perhaps they were to easily offended? The German is my enemy because I'm a Yank. In real life a certain German in this forum must know I have a brotherly regard for him. I wish to extend that regard to all OFFer's as we do have a common bond. Being a community that was exiled from another home I am very proud to be a member and associate of such a fine group.

[Beanie 4]

Boche (Also spelt Bosche in English) French slang for German taken into English: practically never user by the other ranks who preferrede Jerry (German tin hats in outline looked not unlike chamber-pots)

 

Boche was used as early as 1870. One theory of the orgin of the word, is that it comes from an anagram from schwob (English slang swab) a term of contempt applied by Alsatians to Germans in the late ninteeth century.

 

Hope this helps

Edited October 7, 2009 by Beanie

[Olham 164]

Interesting knowledge, Mike Dora.

Do I have you in the OFF Pilots Maps? If not, New York would be right, oky?

 

Well spoken, Rickitycrate - I have a faint idea, who that German might be.

[Mike Dora 171]

Interesting knowledge, Mike Dora.

Do I have you in the OFF Pilots Maps? If not, New York would be right, oky?

 

Well spoken, Rickitycrate - I have a faint idea, who that German might be.

 

 

Yes Olham, NY is right for me, been here since '94 - but what are the OFF Pilots Maps? A new one on me, am I missing something?

 

Mike

[Olham 164]

Look at "OFF Pilot's Map" in the stickies above, Mike.

 

Is that the city of New York, or the state (in that case: which town?)

[Von Paulus 8]

Actually it was the Kaiser himself who created the term "Hun", unwittingly presenting a gift to the allied propegandists.

 

In a speech to his troops heading for China to deal with the Boxer Rising in 1900, he declared: "No quarter will be given, no prisoners will be taken. Let all who fall into your hands be at your mercy. Just as the Huns a thousand years ago, under the leadership of Etzel (Attila) gained a reputation in virtue of which they still live in historical tradition, so may the name of Germany become known in such a manner in China that no Chinaman will ever again even dare to look askance at a German." (from the Times, 30 July 1900)

True. I remember it now where I read that. It was on Martin Gilbert's "A History of the Twentieth Century".

[...]The Kaiser's use of the word 'Huns', intended to encourage and flatter his men, was to rebound on Germany's head[...]"

He abandoned later the example of the Huns and used instead the Isrealites with Moses against Amalekites. But I guess what stayed for posterity was the Huns.

[itifonhom 6]

".......Being a community that was exiled from another home I am very proud to be a member and associate of such a fine group."

 

 

Since I'm rather new here, I fail to understand. Exiled?

 

itifonhom