Whether You Like Him Or Not...

[CowboyTodd41 133]

I saw Bill Clinton speak at Allen Field House at KU today as the first in a series of lectures hosted by Bob Dole who also spoke and was just as good. It was actually a lecture on foreign policy as part of the Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics lecture series. And with 12,000 people in attendence and it being 90 degrees outside, it was really hot in a place that's hot when it's 10 degrees during basketball season! And whether you like Bill Clinton or not it was still very cool to see an former president speak, becuase AFAIC no matter how much you don't like some one you still have to respect the office that he represents.

[T-Bone 0]

As a leader, I believe he commanded respect among our men and women in the armed services. His charisma and persona commanded authority and it is something many of us will not forget. The man had a mistique about him that gave him an image of power.

 

 

T-Bone

[navychief 1]

Perhaps his office commanded repect, but I can tell you that he personally was not respected by anyone I knew. In fact, the general reaction when seeing him on tv, or hearing anyone discuss him, was one of disgust.

 

AMEC(AW) P.C. Ward, USN, Retired

[firehawkordy 34]

As a leader, I believe he commanded respect among our men and women in the armed services

 

What a joke,respect for that pompas ass? I was in the Navy when he sized power and the first thing he did was slash this country's defenses. The ONLY thing he ever did was make Carter look good.

 

Clinton was a gutless wonder who dodged the draft, renounced his citizenship, and sullyed the office of President. And I'm with the Chief, when I see his pasty face on TV, I want to puke.

Edited May 23, 2004 by firehawkordy

[navychief 1]

With few exceptions, the vast majority of vets feel the same way that Firehawkordy and I do. Service members who are younger are not as inclined to be anti-Clinton, mainly because (in my opinion) they did not serve during the Vietnam era, and do not understand the anger felt towards a Commander In Chief who actively protested against that war. Clinton actually went to Moscow during the Vietnam war to protest it. To me, Clinton was an embarrassment to our armed services. Every time I saw him on tv, wearing a flight jacket, I wanted to punch him out.

 

Contrast Clinton with Bush, and the difference is obvious. I would have been proud to welcome President Bush when he landed onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln.

 

When Neal Boortz, a radio commentator here in Atlanta, heard what the Democrats were saying about Bush visiting Normandy Beach, he wrote:

 

Bush in Normandy … Not a Clinton Repeat

 

"I watched the television coverage of President Bush in Normandy yesterday. All in all, a good event. No posturing. No phony tears. No convenient stones on the beach.

 

Stones on the beach? Surely you remember, don't you? It happened during Clinton's visit to this very same spot on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Normandy invasion. Clinton wanted to go for a solitary stroll on the beach. Everyone else was to stay back ... just let him think. Let him reflect on the brave men who lived and died on that sand.

 

Clinton, of course, knew that the television news cameras were up there above the beach, recording every moment of his reflective walk. Clinton came upon a group of stones scattered on the beach. He stopped, knelt down and arranged the stones into the shape of a cross. Cameras rolling. What a moment! Who knows how many votes that amazing moment of reflectivity might have been worth in 1996. It certainly didn't hurt.

 

It was what the cameras didn't show that makes this story. The cameras weren't there earlier that day when a group of Clinton aides walked down that very same beach. The cameras weren't there when those aides stopped at the precise spot where Clinton would later fashion his rock cross. The cameras weren't rolling when those aides reached into their pockets, came out with some rocks, and scattered them on the beach.

 

And Why Do I Still Bring Up the Clintons?

 

Or, as the left would like to phrase it, "bash" the Clintons? Because they're still powerful, that's why. Bill is still corrupt. He's still a sociopath, and he's still without any moral scruples at all. Hillary is still a socialist, she's still a liar, she's still drunk with a desire for power ... and she intends to run for president.

 

They're dangerous, and I'll continue to point out their threat and their dishonesty as long as we are all around."

 

Sorry for being so long on this post, but CowboyTodd's title to this post, "Whether You Like Him or Not" was bound to elicit emotions from those of us who remember what Clinton stood for. The man was a disgrace.

 

Navy Chief

[T-Bone 0]

Interesting, the USN folk seem to have major issues with Clinton while most of those I've spoken to in the USAF hold nothing against him.

 

 

 

T-Bone

[firehawkordy 34]

T-Bone,

Are you or were you ever in the US armed forces?, AF folks that I know hate him as much as the rest of us. For some one who was too cowardly to serve, Clinton was very quick to put us in harms way. With the same assinine restrictions that was foisted on us during the Viet Nam war.

Look at Somolia, it was his SecDef that determined that armored vehicles were too "agressive". What did that policy result in?, soldiers dragged in the streets, and the ones who sent them there scrambling to cover their butts.

No, Clinton is never to be trusted or respected, either one of them.

 

As for USN folk having issues with him, his staff, while visiting one of our aircraft carriers, stole that ship blind. Ahstrays,towels, robes, everything that was missing had to be replaced out of the pockets of the sailors whose responsibilities it was to maintain those spaces. They stole,and expected the E-1's through E-4's to pay for their theft. So yes we have a major problem with him. The AF guys you've talked to must be either very new or very gullible to belive he was good for us.

Enough said.

 

GO NAVY!!

[firehawkordy 34]

For the record,those are AO's the Prsident is with. And I do know the Aviation Ordnance community does respect the current President.

[navychief 1]

Hey Firehawkordy,

 

It wasn't until after I posted that picture, and was reading the followup post, that I noticed those were ordies.

 

When I was with VFA-83, we went on a det to Nellis AFB. The ordies were out on the line, doing their thing and loading bombs for the next event. The USAF aircraft ordnancmen were just sitting by their aircraft, doing nothing. Our ordies asked what they were waiting for. Well, apparently they don't load their bombs by hand; only with machines. Well, by the time the USAF ground support equipment arrived, our ordies had loaded all their bombs, and were back in the Line shack cooling their heels.

 

Of course.

 

Go Navair.

 

Navy Chief

[firehawkordy 34]

Chief,

Everyone knows that we only use non-union labor. Saw the same thing at a Woodland Cougar exercise at Fairchild AFB. We had to share the armory with an ANG squadron from Portland Ore. and they had no idea what flight quaters was. They were working 12&12, staying at a hotel while we were living in an old alert bunker.

At least we were fed well, got steak and shrimp three times that Det. ;)

[snapple2993 0]

hmmmm... that whole Bush in the S-3 still erks me a little, shoulda come in on the COD.... could have been worse though, trappin in an F-18 would've been absurd IMHO.

 

As for Clinton; My sister and bro-in-law were in the Marines when he was in office, and no, neither of them have respect for him.

 

I never had any probs with Clinton, but I can see how the military disliked him.

[T-Bone 0]

Either way, I have spoken to many in the Marines who dislike the current administration's policy on Iraq. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much you dislike the policy or policy-maker, you are not there to make it. You are there to follow orders and have respect for your leader. That is the burden you have the carry in the armed forces when you are faced with the moral paradox of carrying out your order and "doing the right thing."

 

I am not going to argue over which adminstration had better policies as I personally believe neither of them were as great or as horrendous as many lay out to claim. However, I feel it is our responsibility to maintain what has become an almost extinct viewpoint in American dialog: that of a centrist. Be neither a liberal nor a conservative, but someone who is interested in ensuring continued national economic vitality and freedom by accurately recognizing and correctly responding to the economic, political and environmental problems that surround us without letting party affiliation blind you from forming your own thoughts and opinions.

 

 

 

T-Bone

[CowboyTodd41 133]

Great post T-Bone. Personaly, no matter who is in office, whether or not I liked him, if I was asked by that president to go serve for for my country I would, simply becuase I feel it's my moral obligation as a citizen. I did figure I get flamed for this thread though ;)

[Cudaguy 0]

jeeez....ya gotta wonder about some ppl. Respect for Clinton? He doesn't respect himself, why should I?

[navychief 1]

After reading Cowboy Todd's post, I had to reply. I'm sure that Firehawkordy (along with every other vet who was on active duty at the time) will agree with me on this.

 

Following the orders of the Commander In Chief, and serving our country was never an issue. We proudly served, and did our duty. Never a question of that.

 

However, one can follow the orders and direction of your superiors, and still have a personal opinion of them.

 

In Clinton's case, I did not know anyone who thought highly of him. In fact, just mentioning his name was enough to ruin someone's day. The man was despicable.

 

Our country and our military were soiled by his presence in office.

 

Navy Chief

[firehawkordy 34]

Cowboy Todd,

I dont think you've been flamed. You in fact started a thread that so far has been civil. Your sense of duty is to be commended. The Chief is right though, I never in twenty years refused an order by my supeiriors. Thats from the 3rd class running a working party to to the Commander in Chief. Everyone I know has had and expressed some form of opinion about every President we served, but that never interfered with the performance of our duties.

 

As I write this I have friends in the Gulf that have a lowered opinion of Pres. Bush, that doesn't mean they will shirk their duties, they just have an opinion,nothing more,nothing less.

That we can even say that we dissagree with the current gov't is a gift that should be treasured, and defended.

[Skater 0]

hmmmm... that whole Bush in the S-3 still erks me a little, shoulda come in on the COD.... could have been worse though, trappin in an F-18 would've been absurd IMHO.

 

As for Clinton; My sister and bro-in-law were in the Marines when he was in office, and no, neither of them have respect for him.

 

I never had any probs with Clinton, but I can see how the military disliked him.

Look at it this way Snap...

 

You are an ex-fighter pilot.

 

You are also the Prez. So you are holding all the strings, you can pull whichever you want to get what you want.

 

 

Now here is your choice....

 

1.Trap aboard ship in the back of a COD like cargo.

 

-or-

 

2. Trap aboard ship in the right seat of an S-3 like a co-pilot.

 

Your choice. Screw the publicity and photo ops and whatever...

 

Which would YOU choose???

 

 

I rest my case. ;)

 

-Skater

[sambo 0]

I think NOT SO SLICK Willie and comrad hillery could still do our nation A great service by strapping themselfs to A B-24 and be droped on Iriq.