FYI don't hold your breath

[+quack74 329]

Apparently there is no expansion pack planed for the near future of FE2. A bit disappointing to hear. I for one was hoping for something. I was excited to see a SF2 Expansion pack thinking FE2 was next. But I got the impression from TW and TK thats not the case. So no new "things" for us to mess with anytime soon. Too bad. I was hoping for some new AC because their models are great. I hope some more third party modders come out of the wood work for us. FE sure could use a couple of nice fighters or two-seaters. I must admit, the way my FE2 install is setup, I'll be happy for awhile with it. Even without any official updates. But something would be nice. There are some issues that could be fixed in a sinple patch or two. Who knows, maybe we'll see something.

[Wodin 0]

I saw TK mention that as there are decent WW1 sims around now it isn't worth pursuing anymore. With all the User made models around then it's no real bother...though I reckon some tweaking is needed.

[+suhsjake 11]

This doesn't surprise me. FE1/2 were never flag ship titles. The SFP1/SF2 series are though and trying to keep up with patching and a new F-14 game, something was going to get axed, especially when you only have three people running a company.

 

I would wait for an official announcement though. I am sure that he is going to continue to support it with some new nifty things, just not at the size or speed of an expansion.

[Freiwillige 1]

I have long since had the feeling that FE series was always a back burner thing. Even in the modding world it seems to take a back seat to the SF series. What's more interesting is that WW1 modders are some of the most fanatical, Look at RB 3D and OFF, yet it seems that few have interest in FE. Its sad really cause FE has some serious potential. Maybe in time?

[+streakeagle 864]

AFAIK, the only reason FE exists is because a certain someone bank rolled it, who might also be the certain someone who bought BioHaz from Jeff and created CombatAce, who might also be the same someone who created Alienware computers and then sold out to Dell before the market collapsed. Be thankful FE exists at all... much less FE2. I am simply happy that the expansion to FE1 was completed as I can't imagine any WWI sim without the Camel and the Dr.I.

 

Of couse, I would love to see TK round out the planeset with Nieuports, Sopwiths, E.IIIs, etc. But at least there is a moddable framework up to SF2 standards that can be expanded without bounds by third parties. A detailed, accurate bug list might lead up to a minor bug fix patch. But I don't play nearly enough to have any complaints... just single missions every now and then. As for mission editing, If you have no patience to edit using notepad, I am pretty sure you can import the terrain and aircraft into SF2, at least well enough to create missions? Once, again, I have never had the time nor interest to even try to import/export stuff between FE and SF. But I know that some people have experience doing so. The difficulty would be what types of missions are supported in FE versus those in SF2.

[+quack74 329]

I never knew anything about where FE came from. But all I know is FE is what I use for my WWI sim and the way I have mine setup is great. It only too me 4 years to get it that way lol. 4 years?.... what the hell!. Anyway, as far as mission building goes, atleast Krelin's (KMD) mission builder works 99% with FE2. So I could live without the new SF2 MB for FE2 for now. I know WWI never was a hot seller as far as flight sims go. Slow aircraft with jamming guns, no bombsights etc, etc.

 

But it's a damed if you do damed if you dont situation. If you create a sim (like FE) and never really develope it to it's full potential or even take a really long time, years even, to upgrade and add things like aircraft, how successful could it be. Who has the time or intersest to wait years to see what's next? I have to admit, right out of the box I probably wouldnt like FE2 either. The terrain, the FM's, the skies, the ground objects and even the lack of aircraft all made me mod my install big time. At the time I bought FE in '08 the Expansion Pack came out. I thought it was great! Lots of new stuff and even patches to go along with. Even at the time ( I think ) the only other WWI sim out there was Over Flanders Fields. I have OFF too, but FE had some things that OFF didnt. I think FE aircraft are top notch as far as the 3D models and textures are concerned. I eventually got hooked on modding my FE and I'm still doing it today. The way I have my FE2 I'll be happy with it for some time.

 

Why TK never took any 3rd party mods and incorporated them into this sim I dont know. Like the clouds and skies, the different terrain mods, the FM's. They're all better than the stock stuff. I know legal stuff gets involved but I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it. If I could do better with my skins I would let TW use em. Anyway, If something is good out of the box, people tend to stick with it. And if it is supported often people tend to stay interested. When you here news like " We cant afford that right now" it is such a let down. Makes me want to find another WWI sim that is rolling along and is expanding. Wow I have to get to work! I'm sorry to bitch like this everyone. Spending 4 years on a sim (which is my fault) and to see it lose interest is kind of a big let down. talk to you soon.

[+ojcar 157]

Well, my two cents:

 

There were and there are a lot of WWI sims covering the "classic France battles" of WWI. OFF andd ROF are excellent games. But FE has a HUGUE advantage: It can cover the most exotic and strange theaters of war. We can cover Italian front, Russian front, Palestinian front, Romanian front, even the Russian Civil war. We need some planes, skins and maps, of course, but with a little imagination we can have excellent mods (the Caporetto one, for example, or the new Palestinian map). We can fly as Romanian, Polish, Turkisk, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, etc

With OFF and ROF in market, a new expansion covering more Western front planes could be wrong, but if the release has an Italian map, with some Hansa-Brandenburg, Aviatik, Lohner, Ufag, Phonix, etc, or a Meggidoh battle map with proper planes and skins, the game could be great for History buffs. If not, we can built the addons ourselves (another hugue advantage over the other games).

[+quack74 329]

I agree with you 100%

I was thinking of doing a small campaign of the Eastern Fron (Russia) using Nieports, SPADVII's and Hack skins for two-seaters.

Edited January 25, 2011 by quack74

[+ojcar 157]

The Aviatik CII can be an excellent Lebed XII (or a good SALM on Italian mods). Add Farmans, Moranes, Nieuports and SPADS, Fokkers, Pfalzes, Albatros and Austrian planes. A Nieuport 17 with a German skin could be a very good Siemens-Schukert DI (a German copy of the Nieuport 17 in fact). Maybe the Staaken as Ilya Muromets???

[+quack74 329]

The Aviatik CII can be an excellent Lebed XII (or a good SALM on Italian mods). Add Farmans, Moranes, Nieuports and SPADS, Fokkers, Pfalzes, Albatros and Austrian planes. A Nieuport 17 with a German skin could be a very good Siemens-Schukert DI (a German copy of the Nieuport 17 in fact). Maybe the Staaken as Ilya Muromets???

 

Lol Sounds like you have had this all planned out for awhile.

[FastCargo 412]

Why TK never took any 3rd party mods and incorporated them into this sim I dont know. Like the clouds and skies, the different terrain mods, the FM's. They're all better than the stock stuff. I know legal stuff gets involved but I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it. If I could do better with my skins I would let TW use em. Anyway, If something is good out of the box, people tend to stick with it. And if it is supported often people tend to stay interested. When you here news like " We cant afford that right now" it is such a let down. Makes me want to find another WWI sim that is rolling along and is expanding.

 

I'd imagine IP law can get kind of expensive. There have been documented cases of free addons incorporated into payware releases (with the author's permission) that was later revoked by the former freeware author...causing all sorts of legal trouble. The way some payware has been able to get around this is actually hire the freeware folks.

 

Based on the revenue stream, I'd imagine TK can't afford the legal fees or hiring additional personnel...therefore, it's easier and safer to develop stuff in house.

 

Also, TKs business model is to develop in areas that other sim companies aren't addressing. That's why the SF series address the early 60s to late 70s era of flying...because no one else does. At the time FE entered development, OFF didn't exist as payware, and ROF didn't exist at all. That has now changed. Also, the advantage FE has of addressing less known areas of WWI doesn't translate into increased sales, for that very reason...it's lesser known. FE wouldn't have been developed at all if not for the investment of said individual talked about eariler.

 

It sucks, but ultimately, it is a business, and that requires making money. If the audience isn't there in sufficient numbers, especially if there are some deeper alternatives out there, that part of the business will get neglected.

 

FC

[VONTOBLER 18]

" I sit here reading these "responses" to TK's possible and most likely probable end of expansions for FE2. I have FE and all patches and expansions. I have FE2 with again all patches and expansions. I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!...and it saddens me to hear of its being shelved do to lack of interest by the majority of the WW1 flight sim world.I play this game ,I like playing this game, I too own ROF, I am sure its beautiful,I have seen the videos on youtube,BUT...I dont have a topnotch computer to run it. Now as for OFF I followed its developement and my hat is off to the team who has done such an incredible job .With that said I have personally tried several times to order it online but my bank refuses to transfer the funds for purchase(very frustrating)and now CFS3 wont even load on my PC! I am truly thankful for all of the addons here at Combat Ace, the hard work by its members have made TK's sims really shine. Sorry for rambling on I can only hope that Thirdwire sees these respones and realizes FE2 is worth more expansions or at least some new terrains or planes.

Thank You,

VonTobler

[Sky High 166]

I also have, FE, 1+2, OFF, and RoF. I find FE has the edge on OFF, I also am unable to play RoF on my aging pc. Just a dream (or a nightmare?); if TK is about to abandon FE which has so much potential and since OFF is being limited by this ancient, inadequate CFS3 engine, what if the OFF developers (and they are really good) could get their hands on the FE engine...?

[VONTOBLER 18]

Hmmmmmmm Very Interesting thought my friend..................

[Wodin 0]

I prefer OFF...the movement within the cockpit is great in FE 2 but for me personally in every other area OFF beats it. FE2 has slightly cartoon look....look like RC planes to me (I do like them don't get me wrong).

 

Take a Bus up in haevy weather in OFF...check out those massive dark moody clouds that dwarf your flight...OFF has drama and amtopshere in spades..

 

RoF beats both games FM and the way the planes look...though again let down by the scenery and clouds...and has no amtosphere and little immersion...feeling of flight is superb though and I'm sure Multi player it shines but OFF beats it for an SP experience.

 

WOuld have been nice to see an expansion...and a terrain\sky update aswell as tweak the FM's...it would start to meet it's potential then.

 

As fr OFF getting hold of the engine...not sure I'd be happy....I'd want to see a complete overhaul so planes don't fly with half a wing missing etc..and make the planes look less toy like...the only bonus (and it is a biggy) is again I love the movement within the cockpit thus giving the Bus a 3d feel rather than a 2d image of a cockpit moving through 3D terrain.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Wodin

[Wrench 9,426]

not knowing too much about OFF (and 3D work in general)... I'm making some rather large assumptions here, so bear with.

 

IF they are creating new aircraft (and I assume this is correct), they're probably being built in 3dMAX. Now, Max don't care what the origination is ... it's the end product, when exported, that creates the physicaly usable model for the game. (what 3W calls the LOD). Now, if they were so inclinded, and interested, (since it's payware...that being a slightly different story -more later), all they'd need would be the lates 3rdWire Exporter, and VIOLA!!! New model for FE. Mind you, this dosen't take into account all the ini & other work necessary for the flight model, cockpits, skins and etc.

 

Since OFF is a payware product, would they even be interested in producing a PW mod for FE? And how many would actually buy it? I personally have no issue whatsoever with payware -- I've got RazBams birds for SF, and they're beautiful!

 

or, would a 3D guy purchase the 3ds (max file) from them, and either freeware it or release as payware?

 

Interestering possibilities here, but who knows??

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+quack74 329]

I too would have no problems paying someone for their 3D model work if they created models for FE. If they took their time and did it right and created a beautiful plane then they deserve the payment. And we would get some more great, much needed, aircraft.

[+whiteknight06604 931]

I think(not sure) that CF2 and CFS3 can use GMAX to make models and therefor would need someone to convert them.I'm not against payware either as long as it's of a quality or item not available free.I would support anything that would expand the popularity of FE.I'd go one step further and hazard a guess that if someone was to make a good quality aircraft and sell it alacart like ROF people would buy them as long as prices were reasonable.10-20 dollar range I would guess.

Edited January 29, 2011 by whiteknight06604

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Shame really, I still need a Pfalz D.III to flesh out my install and that would have been in the official expansion. Maybe a Pup to go with the early Albatros...

 

I have RoF, but truth be told I'm getting tired of seeing them release "odd planes" which they want to sell (HP400, Gotha IV), while standard aircraft are still far away and not developed yet (RE8...). RoF is so far from a historical representation of actual WW1 air combat it isn't even funny. Yes, the AC fly well, the map is nice and detailed, but the mission generator and included aircraft are really unhistoric.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Helmut_AUT

[+quack74 329]

Shame really, I still need a Pfalz D.III to flesh out my install and that would have been in the official expansion. Maybe a Pup to go with the early Albatros...

 

I have RoF, but truth be told I'm getting tired of seeing them release "odd planes" which they want to sell (HP400, Gotha IV), while standard aircraft are still far away and not developed yet (RE8...). RoF is so far from a historical representation of actual WW1 air combat it isn't even funny. Yes, the AC fly well, the map is nice and detailed, but the mission generator and included aircraft are really unhistoric.

 

 

Skunkworks has a PfalzD.III and a D.IIIa for FE. And I've done a hand full of different skins for them that are available here in the FE download section. If your looking for a Pfalz type.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Thanks, but I never had luck contacting them, and the entire process seems a bit much to repeat. Maybe if their D.III had an excellent cockpit, I would be motivated but I haven't been able to find screenshots. Sadly no one else ever seems to have taken up the work to release a "free" Pfalz, so I was waiting for TW to provide a high quality easily accessible one.

[+quack74 329]

Well I recommend trying again. Skunkworks Pfalz D.III and D.IIIa have nice cockpits. With Petero1's FM's and some of my Skins (all found here at CA) the D.III's are really great. Trust me it's worth trying. I use the Pfalz D.III's maybe more than the Albatros types. I've included them into my campaigmns as well.

 

 

[+quack74 329]

The cockpit isnt spectacular but it does the trick and everything moves around. I even added a radiator decal on the underside of the upperwing.

 

 

[Nixou 25]

Alternatives?

 

Red baron 1:

 

excellent game, but the limited freedom, misssions repetitive, sniper AI, and the non-modability kills it . There's no allies, you are either british or german, it somehow make you believe that WW1 was England vs Germany.

Red baron 3D:

 

quite good but the annoying bugs, unrealistic guns, outdated graphics, bye bye

 

Red ace squadron, wings of glory and this type of:

 

Arcade games. Very fun during 10 minuts, after what you put it to the trashcan.

 

OFF: Graphics of this outdated looking engine is something that i cant forget, copy paste terrain not feeling realistic (not to ofend anyone) nor the shooting aspect, bullets dont feel to come out of your machinegun.

 

Also the payware aspect for a mod, while there is so much excellent stuff for free in First eagles mods, is something i am not fond of. I know that nearly everybody desagrees with me on that aspect, though.

Success of OFF makes me jealous, when all that money could have been spent to help TK getting a more immersive FE, which would have made it better in every aspect. /rant off

First eagles is so much more beautiful..

 

Rise of flight: The best graphics, the best FMs, the best realism ever, all that rendered usless by unexistent immersion, unexistent quality solo campaign, online compulsory, more turned towards multiplay than anything, annoying drms.Shame, it looked so promising..

 

 

 

Conclusion: There is only first eagles left! You can get all the planes and all the stuff for free, some mods are of unbelievable quality, decent fms,very beautiful graphics. And for 10-15 dollars you help a developper that's really worth it.

 

There no possible hesitation.

 

Just a pity there's no more immersion like the red baron series had. Immersion is what made the strength of a game, like European air war, the first title of TK, and my preferred WW2 game.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Nix

[+Stary 2,426]

Nix, I think you slightly deteriorate OFF in terms of terrain and general air combat feeling. And go check the screenies from P4

 

The problem with ThirdWire sims in general is the terrain/environment/weather engines in it's "emptyness" which isn't that important for let's say fast jet combat over desert and sea, but is very obvious for The Great War (or it's... "sequel" IF TK ever fancy making such title, I doubt so, Korea, very slight maybe). The big killer for me was when I downloaded First Eagles Gold to discover that trees are straight from "jet titles" and still non-collidable. Same with environment system and weather. This is something that is a "negative features" in WW1 title. Good modders took care of most of these apects (kudos to Tuma!) but they can't jump the engine.

 

Also, the lack of code for mannable gunners is another important omission IMO (apply to whole titles)

 

On the other side out of the box FE/FE2 has one of the best models on the market, specially with FE2's normalmapping, I'd risk opinion it's very close to stock (=earlier, not the payware additional) ROF models in terms of texture and mesh quality.

 

I'd love to see FE models combined with OFF terrain and weather system

 

 

Oh, back to FE, that gray "thing" on the horizont and lack of layered morning fog...