Desert3 Campaign Carrier Ops

[+Piecemeal 450]

So here's my dilemma.

 

Some of you may remember me mentioning this on other similar topic discussions elsewhere here, so I thought I'd start a fresh topic so as not to be taking over what other people started.

Anyway, I've been having HUGE problems getting my edited campaigns to work with the Desert3 terrain since installing SF2NA and the March 2012 patches.

 

Carrier ops were added to my campaign files a long time ago which placed all USN squadrons and some USMC squadrons away from land bases.

After extensive comparing with the SF2NA Northern Sabre campaign and editing of my SF2 campaign files, I was at a stage where I could only fly with either the RAF or Mercenary squadron. Basically, any US units were unflyable. When I chose one unit in the campaign start menu (regardless of the service) the game would freeze as soon as I clicked the "Accept" tab, meaning I'd have to close the game via the Task Manager.

 

After two weeks of head scratching and screaming at the monitor I found a way where I could at least start a campaign by flying with a USAF or land based USMC squadron. In the CAMPAIGN.INI and the CAMPAIGN_DATA.ini files I deleted the "NavalCampaign=TRUE" prompts. I first tried a USAF squadron - no problem; accessed the "Operation Quick Sand" menu, chose my weapons, flew the mission, etc, etc.

Then I tried starting the campaign with a USN squadron. I was able to get to the "Quick Sand" menu. The mission menu appeared and as per normal I went to check my waypoints on the map. This is the picture that greeted me:

 

 

As you can see, there's no carrier group and the starting point. The carrier battle group is situated (for obvious reasons!) in the sea. Just for the heck of it I started the mission to see what would happened next. All that happened was a gigantic explosion, predictably.

It's also just occured to me that I should try out the old method of re-introducing carrier stations to the DESERT3_TARGETS.ini. However that would mean having no escort ships and the like, not to mention having no seagoing-type missions such as carrier group CAPs, etc.

 

So here's my questions.

1. Could this be a problem with the new post-March 2012 game engine? Or is there STILL something I'm missing?

2. Has anybody else experienced similar problems with bringing edited and third party campaigns up to speed with March 2012?

3. If anybody's answer to #2 is yes; what methods have they used in rectifying it?

 

Any help and/or advice on this issue would be VERY gratefully received, as I'm literally going nuts over this.

[+JonathanRL 973]

Something with NavalMap on Third Party maps is still very much messed up. Teleporting task forces, strange objectives etc etc are just the start of it.

 

I had hoped April patch would have fixed it, but it seems like it did not.

 

However; Stupid question. Is NavalMap set to True in the Terrain .ini? And does the map have a Water map updated to NA Standards?

You should have no problem making them appearing, and this looks very much like a lack of areas for task forces to operate in.

Edited April 6, 2012 by JonathanRL

[+Piecemeal 450]

Is NavalMap set to True in the Terrain .ini?

 

That's the weird thing Johnathan. With the "NavalMap=TRUE" prompt I can't fly any American squadrons - not even USAF! I can however fly in an RAF or Merc squadron though. But when I remove the "NavalMap=TRUE" prompt I can fly with the USAF, SUN or the USMC. Only difference is that your Navy campaign starts in the middle of the Desert.

 

And does the map have a Water map updated to NA Standards?

 

Yup. I created one myself but have since started using one from the recent WaterMap pack in the d/l section.

 

You should have no problem making them appearing, and this looks very much like a lack of areas for task forces to operate in.

 

Before March 2012 I had numerous Carrier stations in the "DESERT3_TARGETS.ini" file. But after looking through the INIs in the stock Iceland terrain I deleted them since there were none in the IcelandNA_Targets.ini file. I also added the necessary Carrier Group data to the campaign data.ini.

 

Oh, I forgot to include these in my introductory post for this topic: MY_CAMPAIGN3.rar

I deleted the "NavalaMap=TRUE" promp from them to at least get USAF squadrons flying in the campaign.

 

If you want to check out what I've recently done to update the Desert3 terrain you can check it out here and see for yourself: http://combatace.com/files/file/12779-desert3-terrain/

[+JonathanRL 973]

Set your Carrier Stations to True. Just see if that is what does it.

 

//StartPosition=250000.0,880000.0

ObjectivePosition=400000.0,680000.0

HomePortPosition=200000.0,890000.0

 

Start position is not supposed to be behind //

 

That is what I can find from a first look. Apologies, but have no time to go into great detail atm.

Edited April 6, 2012 by JonathanRL

[+Piecemeal 450]

Set your Carrier Stations to True. Just see if that is what does it.

 

//StartPosition=250000.0,880000.0

ObjectivePosition=400000.0,680000.0

HomePortPosition=200000.0,890000.0

 

Start position is not supposed to be behind //

 

That is what I can find from a first look. Apologies, but have no time to go into great detail atm.

 

Good point on the co-ordinates errors. A hangover from something I was trying out recently Forward slash symbols have just been removed from this line.

 

I deleted the carrier stations from the desert3_data.ini as

(a) The "IcelandNA_Targets" file doesn't have one

(b) The objective position is already in the "campaign3_data" file (I'm assuming that this is the same thing as the old carrier station setup)

Edited April 6, 2012 by Piecemeal

[KeyboardChap 5]

What about adding "NavalCampaign=TRUE" to Campaign3_Data?

[+Piecemeal 450]

What about adding "NavalCampaign=TRUE" to Campaign3_Data?

 

THAT is the reason why I can't fly any US service squadrons. When I remove that prompt from the campaign3_data file I can fly with the USAF or USMC (land based) squadrons. If you look at the screenshot above you'll see the resulting problem I'm having AFTER removing the "NavalCampaign=TRUE" prompt.

 

It really is a no-win situation with this updated game engine at the moment. TK doesn't really leave much scope for the campaign modder when it comes to improving stock campaigns.

[KeyboardChap 5]

Sorry I missed where you said that! I only saw the bit about NavalMap=TRUE, and when I looked at the file you posted I didn't see it. Other than that I can't help, sorry!

[+JonathanRL 973]

I deleted the carrier stations from the desert3_data.ini as

(a) The "IcelandNA_Targets" file doesn't have one

 

That is with another Terrain Engine. Just answer if you tried it as it is now with Carrier Stations On. If you have not, try it.

 

(b) The objective position is already in the "campaign3_data" file (I'm assuming that this is the same thing as the old carrier station setup)

 

No. The Airplanes will take off regardless where the Carriers are. The objective point is where the Carriers are heading. Hence, you need to fill out all three without a //. Also, when a Carrier unit have reached its objective; it usually disappears or returns to base.

 

 

Also, try with RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE as the Task Forces on my terrains disappear after two days; and never appears if this is set to TRUE.

Edited April 7, 2012 by JonathanRL

[thereg 15]

That is with another Terrain Engine. Just answer if you tried it as it is now with Carrier Stations On. If you have not, try it.

 

 

 

No. The Airplanes will take off regardless where the Carriers are. The objective point is where the Carriers are heading. Hence, you need to fill out all three without a //. Also, when a Carrier unit have reached its objective; it usually disappears or returns to base.

 

 

Also, try with RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE as the Task Forces on my terrains disappear after two days; and never appears if this is set to TRUE.

 

You're right about the RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE command. I've found that my heavily altered versions of Spectre's Korea and Taiwan campaigns, with flyable units starting AFTER the campaign startdate always cause a ctd if I set this to TRUE, whereas they were fine before NA came along.

As for the carriers disappearing, I've just been making the start position and objective positions the same and they stay around.

Now I just need to figure out why both of those maps have day missions starting in darkness and night missions in daylight in single and campaign missions.

[+Piecemeal 450]

That is with another Terrain Engine. Just answer if you tried it as it is now with Carrier Stations On. If you have not, try it.

 

Fair enough point. on the terrain engine. I've assumed up to now that all terrains used the new game engine. Obviously not.

Who was it that said "assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups?"

 

No. The Airplanes will take off regardless where the Carriers are. The objective point is where the Carriers are heading.

 

What I meant to say was "the route of the carrier group" or something like that. Again; another example of me reading into the new game engine and assuming things.

 

Also, try with RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE as the Task Forces on my terrains disappear after two days; and never appears if this is set to TRUE.

 

In the end I decided to go back to the old pre-March 2012 "Carrier station" setup; as you suggested I put back the Carrier Station location in the DESERT3_TARGETS.ini file and left the "RunCampaign,etc" prompt in the Campaign3_Data.ini as it was. Just tried out starting a carrier campaign without any problems. However the downside of that of course is having no escort vessels, but as you said Johnathan; a different terrain engine. If there is a way to include escorts this way in campaigns I'd love to know.

 

You're right about the RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE command. I've found that my heavily altered versions of Spectre's Korea and Taiwan campaigns, with flyable units starting AFTER the campaign startdate always cause a ctd if I set this to TRUE, whereas they were fine before NA came along.

 

As for the carriers disappearing, I've just been making the start position and objective positions the same and they stay around.

 

Now I just need to figure out why both of those maps have day missions starting in darkness and night missions in daylight in single and campaign missions.

 

Hi TR. Check out what I mentioned above to Johnathan. I think what the problem is is that myself and others have been reading too much into the new IcelandNA terrain and coming up with the assumption that the features in it are workable in older stock and third party terrains also. Maybe they're meant to, I dunno, and it's something somewhere in the INI setup that needed to be changed by TK.

 

One question guys before I have to head out to the kichen to make dinner - does anyone know if there's a fix for carriers not having populated decks when flying campaigns?

 

Cheers

 

BTW, just in case you want have a look at exactly what changes I made to the campaign files, here they are: MY_CAMPAIGN3_updated.rar

Edited April 7, 2012 by Piecemeal

[+JonathanRL 973]

Tell you what, I have working Task Forces in TSF. I will add carriers and see what I can do.

 

I think what the problem is is that myself and others have been reading too much into the new IcelandNA terrain and coming up with the assumption that the features in it are workable in older stock and third party terrains also. Maybe they're meant to, I dunno, and it's something somewhere in the INI setup that needed to be changed by TK.

 

I am not sure actually. Task Forces do work perfectly for me; they are just not going where they are supposed to but I expect TK to fix that.

 

 

Here we go. First of all, you was right. CarrierStations does not need to be True.

 

Settings pretty much copied from SF2: NA and put into an existing Task Force:

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from the Escorts not forming up (No clue why either), it works like a charm.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Thanks for the INIs Johnathan. Very similar results I'm afraid. The only difference this time round was that the carrier group DID show up on the map. Apart from that my First waypoint was deep in Paran near P14 airfield.

HOWEVER - after reading your last post above I think it's dawned on me as to why your campaigns are working and mine aren't. You're using SF2NA and its associated engine. I'm using SF2.

 

I'll try the campaign out tomorrow in SF2NA and let you know what happens.

 

PS: Thanks a millions for your help so far

[+JonathanRL 973]

If thats true, that is some seriously bad news for us modders if the more advanced task forces options will require SF2: NA

[+Piecemeal 450]

It works!! It actually f*cking works!!!

 

I copied all my SF2 mod folders to SF2NA and tried out starting a naval campaign. Worked as sweet as a nut! Proper start location and the task force escorts are all present and accounted for:

 

 

Of course, as you mentioned earlier this is pretty grim news for non SF2NA users. Makes me wonder if this was a deliberate move on TK's part???

Edited April 8, 2012 by Piecemeal

[+JonathanRL 973]

Of course, as you mentioned earlier this is pretty grim news for non SF2NA users. Makes me wonder if this was a deliberate move on TK's part???

 

If this is true, there is pretty much no reason for me to upgrade the TSF Campaigns to SF2: NA standards. Grim indeed. One would at least want a list what is included and not.

 

I will do some testing later on, I have a stand alone SF2: E for that very purpose.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Well I think after discovering this I might just run all of my modded SF2 campaigns via SF2NA.

 

It's something I'll have to live with for the time being (hopefully!!) but the only problem I have with doing this is the "RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=FALSE". I've always had Operation Quick Sand's US Navy units starting seven to ten days after the campaign starts, kind of imitating a real life scenario where the US government would react to a sudden crisis by send a carrier to the area. When starting a campaign before SF2NA was installed the enemy forces would usually be in control of southern Dhimar - hence the need for a "RunCampaignBeforePlayerStart=TRUE" prompt.

 

Again, I'm not sure if the problems we're having with this are deliberate change by TK or a rewriting error in the game engine.

[+JonathanRL 973]

Myth Busted. Just got Task Forces and Carriers working in a Stand Alone SF2: E on latest patch level.

 

Going to post a walk trough in the sticky about such things.

 

EDIT:

http://combatace.com/topic/71346-sf2-na-naval-combat-3rd-party-campaigns/page__st__20__gopid__565445#entry565445

Edited April 8, 2012 by JonathanRL