Atreides 144 Posted June 25, 2012 Of course. Your point? GTK, point being that its unrealistic if not worse to think that if all those countires in the ME got **** themselves in all out war that somehow Europe and the USA would not get involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) In late 2011, an IAF Cheetah helicopter It was a tin can Cheetah, Ghost and not a fast jet. How much of a bet do you want that the PAF would have relished the oppurtunity to bring down a fast jet especially if there a chance that it might be a MKI. A slow moving target like the Cheetah allows for more time to react reasonably than a jet does. Now I'm not privy to how AA units work and their procedures so its just my 0.02 cents. Edited June 26, 2012 by Atreides Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baz_GFA 0 Posted June 25, 2012 GTK, point being that its unrealistic if not worse to think that if all those countires in the ME got **** themselves in all out war that somehow Europe and the USA would not get involved. I agree, islamists are on the rise all across the ME. WW3 is unavoidable at this point. We can stay out of it until we can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted June 25, 2012 WW3 ??? Run...Get to da Choppa ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+allenjb42 4,122 Posted June 25, 2012 BBC are saying the Syrians shot at one of the SAR aircraft too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18586645 BTW if the Phantom was an RF-4E, do we know if the Turks are providing intel to the Syrian rebels? http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/syria-fsa-assad-430951 The Guardian also claims that Turkey has allowed the establishment of a command center in Istanbul co-coordinating the supply of weapons to the rebel fighters in Syria, staffed by more than 20 mainly Syrian nationals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 10,241 Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) missinterpretation by the journalists. The syrians locked on SAM Radar on the plane, but dont open the fire. A lock on can also seen as an hostile action. Edited June 26, 2012 by Gepard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macelena 1,070 Posted June 26, 2012 missinterpretation by the journalists. The syrians locked on SAM Radar on the plane, but dont open the fire. A lock on can also seen as an hostile action. i guess you mean they didn´t shoot at the SAR aircraft. The Phantom is older than dirt, but won´t go down for being locked on radar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted June 26, 2012 Topics merged...so you might see some unusual responses in the thread. Carry on... FC 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted June 26, 2012 Topics merged...so you might see some unusual responses in the thread. Carry on... FC Thanks for the note FC... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted June 26, 2012 And THAT'S why I always turn on the ignition AFTER setting the mirrors. Wait, what? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 10,241 Posted June 27, 2012 i guess you mean they didn´t shoot at the SAR aircraft. The Phantom is older than dirt, but won´t go down for being locked on radar Yes, i mean the SAR bird indeed. Of course the RF-4 was downed by a SAM and i think it was a modern SAM system, perhaps the S-300, which is very comparable with the american Patriot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted June 27, 2012 And THAT'S why I always turn on the ignition AFTER setting the mirrors. Wait, what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted June 27, 2012 As revolting as Assad and his goons might be, the fact is that the aircraft violated sovereign airspace and was shot down. It was a military aircrat that was shot down not a civilian one. Which country would allow another countries aircraft to fly into its airspace without an intercept or SAM batteries locking on ? What were the Syrians supposed to do ask nicely ? BS, Turkey got caught being naughty and the jet was shot down. ANy other nation would have done something similar. Not strictly true!....If the RAF had shot down the Bears who flew constantly into our airspace...the Cold War would have been REAL hot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverbolt 104 Posted June 27, 2012 Hope the pilots survived.If Syrian forces did bring down the plane,then it's a real foolish decision from their side as they may have made a new powerful enemy. fly 40 meters hight at high speed inside your waters is a foolish decision? as far i am concearned turkey is the agressor. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverbolt 104 Posted June 28, 2012 My interpretation of the facts are: NATO can't bring Assad down via UN security councill , the legit way. so, the west is trying to bring him down at any costs with these agressions. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted June 28, 2012 Isn't all of this conjecture based on news reports (always known for their accuracy) fun? I do see some other issues creeping in and am sorry that this forum has been chosen to vent said issues. Come on, guys, this is a combat simulator forum and you all should know that getting political with the world-wide attendees here will very soon get ugly. I agree with our monitors that we should stick to observations about the facts of the incident. We should all think about two young Turkish aviators that appear to have been lost. I hope I am wrong, but if they are alive, where are they? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted June 28, 2012 "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - JMS That is exactly what we are seeing here. None of us have any real idea as to what exactly happened, and exactly who ordered what and what were the motivations behind it. So, throttle it back and keep the political speculations to a minimum. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Point taken. Still no news about the pilots though. All you see/hear on the news is sabre rattling. One would hope that atleast something would have been mentioned as to their fate. Bah, politics and politicians. Edited June 28, 2012 by Atreides Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,318 Posted June 28, 2012 It was said that these little jaunts into the airspace was common place between the two countries. Now Syria decided to act? Turkey the aggressor? Not hardly. Someone got trigger happy because of the NATO incursion in Libya and decided to act. I mean seriously, this was routine not some recce mission. Syria messed up and Turkey isnt going to roll and let it slide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) The only way to resolve this is by both sides to quietly and quickly..... Edited June 28, 2012 by Atreides 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+daddyairplanes 8,643 Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) an update on the matter http://news.yahoo.com/helmets-found-no-pilots-mystery-deepens-plane-crash-182711096.html and Dave, in my experience with Turks, no they will not let any slight go. not trying to be mean or anything, just sayin don't go into a Doner shop and order a gyro! Edited June 28, 2012 by daddyairplanes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macelena 1,070 Posted June 28, 2012 as far i am concearned turkey is the agressor. Yep, that evil recce bird is slaughtering thousands of innocent syrian civilians and...wait, i said nothing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+hgbn 91 Posted June 28, 2012 One think its hard for me to understand is. How otherwise freedom loving people are talking in favor of a Mideastern despot who doesn't care a living s**t about his own people and only have one goal in life. To remain in power regardless of how many of his own people he need to sacrifice in the process Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted June 28, 2012 a Mideastern despot who doesn't care a living s**t about his own people and only have one goal in life. To remain in power regardless of how many of his own people he need to sacrifice in the process I take it "Mideastern" is supposed to be the main negative word here, 'cause otherwise he's no different from the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
