Lazarus1177 164 Posted August 31, 2012 Tragedy has struck again in the world of aviation: http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120830/DEFREG03/308300007/9-Killed-Indian-Military-Helicopters-Collide?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Salute to the crew and condolences to their family and friends.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stratos 3,167 Posted August 31, 2012 Condoleneces to the families. BTW, the article says India plan to get new chopper to replace all the fleet. Any idea of the possible candidates? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted August 31, 2012 More new Mil's most likely. The IAF higher ups don't seem to like the HAL Dhurv, because it's local and not imported. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted August 31, 2012 There are 2 new ones being bought IIRC. One will be Mil-171s I think, and the other will be open to several possible Western contenders. The Dhruv isn't performing as well as hoped (I believe its hot-and-high performance is lacking, making mountains, deserts, and mountains in the desert a problem) so its production is being curtailed last I heard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capitaine Vengeur 263 Posted August 31, 2012 May the investigations be serious and exhaustive, for that not to happen again before long... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Apparently, one the main rotors of the Mi-17s hit the other one. One of the crashed choppers burnt up completely. Nine aircrew lost, among them senior pilots from India's TACDE( Tactics & Air Combat Development establishment) :-( . RIP . Crash site pictures. These are the new Mi-17V5s that are being inducted to replace old Mi-8s and 17s: IIRC 12 AW101s was selected fro the VIP/ Comms Squadron of the IAF and the first one few in IAF colours recently at AW facilty in UK. HAL Dhruv Mk.IIIs are powered by more powerful Shakti engines are being inducted in numbers by the army and are doing well serving frontlines in Kashmir. In October 2007, an Army Dhruv helicopter flew at a record altitude of 27,500ft in Siachen. Soon a Gunship version, christened the Rudra will be inducted by the Army & air Force. Edited September 1, 2012 by ghostrider883 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted September 1, 2012 @ Ghost, good to know that the Dhruv isn't still getting the LCA treatment by the IAF top brass. I still think it's performance req are constantly going to be raised so that it's not purchased in large quanities, why ? Cause the uber corrupt fat politicians you have in India won't get kick backs in foreign currency from HAL. I will gladly admit I'm wrong here when the Dhruv is purchased in quanty along with light attack version (cmon that things not really a gunship ). Planned, shmanned with the IAF till they're actually flying its a matter of fact over fiction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) The Dhruv is doing quite well in Kashmir ,as seen from the photos below. The Army Aviation Corps continues to induct them in numbers to maintain vital air link to forward posts, including the highest Indian Army post on Siachen at 21,000 feet. The reason why Dhruv is required by the IAF & Army as a gunship is because of the Kargil Experience. Neither the Hinds nor the soon to cleared Apaches can operate effectively at those altitudes. Even the Mi-17s used by the IAF did not have front guns fighting Pakis army terrorists in Kargil, hell some of them even did not have counter measure dispensers, which led to the tragic loss of the brave Mi-17 gunship aircrew in Kargil. The Dhruv WSI will have cannons as well rocket pods and missiles(four of them). Edited September 2, 2012 by ghostrider883 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted September 2, 2012 The reason why Dhruv is required by the IAF & Army as a gunship is because of the Kargil Experience. Neither the Hinds nor the soon to cleared Apaches can operate effectively at those altitudes. Even the Mi-17s used by the IAF did not have front guns fighting Pakis army terrorists in Kargil, hell some of them even did not have counter measure dispensers, which led to the tragic loss of the brave Mi-17 gunship aircrew in Kargil. The Dhruv WSI will have cannons as well rocket pods and missiles(four of them). So the Apaches have been cleared for purchase ? Wait, if they can't operate at the altitude of the Dhruv how are they being cleared ? So for high altitudes its the Dhruv ? And what for lower the far more expensive Apache ? How does that make sense. And the Mil-17's in Kargil were not capable of carrying rocket pods and machine guns ? I know that Mil-17 are capable of carrying weapon loads, if they weren't then thats not the helis fault sounds more like the IAF being caught with their pants down and they didn't have time to arm them or didn't have the armament. Heck even Mil-8 carry a very respectable payload. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted September 3, 2012 Sorry, but there is NO amount of money you can pay me to stand under a helo hovering THAT low!! I'm not capable of trusting another human's piloting skills THAT much! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) So the Apaches have been cleared for purchase ? Soon to be cleared. It beat the Havoc in trials for IAF's requirement for 22 attack helos to replace/augment the Mi-25/35 fleet. Wait, if they can't operate at the altitude of the Dhruv how are they being cleared ? So for high altitudes its the Dhruv ? And what for lower the far more expensive Apache ? How does that make sense. Well,, When India goes to war, it will not only be in Kashmir. The war will also be fought in the deserts and plains, where the Apache will excel. And the Mil-17's in Kargil were not capable of carrying rocket pods and machine guns ? I never said that. To attack the intruders at those heights, the Hinds were found incapable. The Mi-17s were equipped with rocket pods to attack those Paki intruders and they were flying at limits of their performance. The Dhruv WSI (Rudra) with its better performance at high altitudes will serve better as a gunship than the Hip. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Kargil/1061-AK-Sinha.html Once the Indian Army launched its operation, we at Srinagar Airbase got charged with enthusiasm. We were eagerly waiting to hear the green signal - 'GO' ! On 25 May 99, when the CAS finally broke the ice and gave the clearance, the maddening preparations begun immediately. I was lucky enough to be selected to lead the offensive. Gp Capt AR Oak, Air-1, AOC, J & K instantly briefed all of us in the presence of overall Operation Commander AVM N Menon, the AOC, J & K. My technical team consisted of Flt Lt Maurisa Jhingran and Fit Lt BS Jamuar. They put the ground crew on action. Helicopters were Jacked- up to fit the rocket pods and harmonise the rocket sights. Circuitry for the CMOS were checked-out. I, along with my co-pilot Sqn Ldr AS Pandey, got busy making maps, planning strike missions, collecting bullet proof Jackets, Helmets, Personal Weapons etc. We took a few packets of chocolates too for emergency. After the whole-night work, loading and arming of 6 x Mi-17 with 768 rockets along with equal number of Flare cartridges were completed. Each Mi-17 was configured with 4x57mm rockets pods, carrying a total of 128 rockets. The first TOT was 0650 hrs. First two days we struck and saturated the enemy positions of 'Tiger Hill' and 'Tololing'. Finally on 28 May 99 Nubra formation, 4 x Mi-17 were tasked to strike 'Point 5140' feature, located 2 kms north of Tololing'. Maj Rakesh Adhikary came on-board Nubra-1 to guide us to locate our armed Mi-17s strike at Tololing, as he came on the 1 st day (26 May 99). Nubra formation took off in time and all went on perfectly well, like clockwork. Notwithstanding the threat of enemy firing, Nubra-1 (my helicopter) struck at point 5140 with two salvoes of 64 rockets each. Simultaneously, enemy started firing shoulder fired Stinger missiles. Two Stingers, skimmed past the wind screen of Nubra-1. Both these were fired from two different locations. Similarly, Nubra-2,3 and 4 of Sqn Ldr Verma, Flt Lt Muhilan and Sqn Ldr Nitish respectively struck the enemy positions with 128 rockets each. After Nubra-3 had fired its armament, it got hit by an enemy stinger missile. The complete operation was a perfect team work of the ground crew, air crew and the controlling staff. Edited September 3, 2012 by ghostrider883 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 629 Posted September 3, 2012 sorry for the families' loses <S> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
