Idle Speculation about the French in WOFF

[Bullethead 12]

One of the things I've been wondering most about WOFF is whether we'll see any "real" French 2-seaters. OBD's been pretty mum about that, but I just stumbled across a clue left by Polovski in a comment on YouTube about the WOFF teaser video #3. There, he lists the 79 (actually 78--one is counted twice) escadrilles that will be in WOFF and says "you can fly a whole historical career in (not just key places)". Here's the link to that:

 

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=U3h9nym70WY

 

Anyway, escadrilles had letters in front of their numbers to indicate what type of plane they had. These letters changed when the escadrille was re-equipped but the number stayed the same, so you can trace the number through time and see the different letters. This hints at what French planes OBD might include in WOFF. I say "hints at" because I doubt OBD actually included all the planes from the early part of the war, but you never know. This is idle speculation, after all :).

 

So, I researched all the escadrille numbers listed by Pol and came up with the results below. This and Pol's phrase about "whole careers" gives me hope that we'll at least see the Breguet 14 and Salmson 2 A2, which would also finally give the US some 2-seaters. IIRC, it's been announced we're also getting the MS Parasol. However, I don't hold out much hope for Caudrons, Voisins, or the various Farman planes because few of the listed escadrilles had them. But, like I said, you never know.

 

Anyay, here's what I came up with:

 

3 - BL 3, MS 3, N 3, SPA 3

5 - MF 5, F 5, SOP 5, SAL 5

7 - HF 7, MF 7, SOP 7, BR 7

9 - BO 9, MF 9, BL 9, C 9, SOP 9, BR 9

12 - N 12, MS 12, N 12, SPA 12

13 - HF 13, C 13, SOP 13, SAL 13

23 - MS 23, N 23, SPA 23

24 - V 24, MF 24, F 24, SOP 24, SAL 24

26 - MS 26, N 26, SPA 26

28 - HF 28, C 28, SOP 28, SAL 28

29 - MF 29, SOP 29, BR 29

37 - MS 37, N 37, SPA 37

38 - MS 38, N 38, SPA 38

39 - CM 39, C 39, SOP 39, SAL 39

48 - MS 48, N 48, SPA 48

49 - MS 49. M 49. SPA 49

55 - MF 55, F 55, AR 55, SOP 55, SPA-bi 55

57 - MS 57, N 57, SPA 57

60 - MF 60, F 60, SOP 60, SPA-bi 60

61 - C 61, SOP 61, SAL 61

62 - MF 62, N 62, SPA 62

65 - N 65, SPA 65

66 - C 66, SOP 66, BR 66

67 - N 67, SPA 67

68 - N 68, SPA 68

69 - N 69, SPA 69

73 - N 73, SPA 73

75 - N 75, SPA 75

76 - C 76 (R4), N 76, SPA 76

77 - N 77, SPA 77

78 - N 78, SPA 78

79 - N 79, SPA 79

80 - N 80, SPA 80

81 - N 81, SPA 81

82 - N 82, SPA 82

83 - N 83, SPA 83

84 - N 84, SPA 84

85 - N 85, SPA 85

86 - N 86, SPA 86

87 - N 87, SPA 87

88 - N 88, SPA 88

89 - N 89, SPA 89

90 - N 90, SPA 90

91 - N 91, SPA 91

92 - N 92, SPA 92

93 - N 93, SPA 93

94 - N 94, SPA 94

95 - N 95, SPA 95

96 - N 96, SPA 96

97 - N 97, SPA 97

98 - N 98, SPA 98

99 - N 99, SPA 99

100 - N 100, SPA 100

102 - VB 102, N 102, SPA 102

103 - VB 103, N 103, SPA 103

104 - V 104, C 104, SOP 104, BR 104

105 - C 105, SOP 105, SAL 105

106 - VB 106, C 106, SAL 106

107 - VB 107, SOP 107, BR 107

108 - VB 108, SOP 108, BR 108

111 - VB 111, VC 111, SOP 111, BR 111

112 - VB 112, F 112, N 112, SPA 112

123 - MF 123, SOP 123, BR 123

124 - Escadrille ame'ricaine (N 124, SPA 124) = "Laf"

128 - PS 128, SOP 128, BR 128

129 - SOP 129, BR 129

131 - SOP 131, BR 131

134 - SOP 134, BR 134

141 - SOP 141, BR 141

150 - N 150, SPA 150

151 - N 151, SPA 151

152 - SPA 152

153 - N153, SPA 153

154 - N 154, SPA 154

155 - N 155, SPA 155

313 - N 313 (N.27), SPA 313

314 - N 314, SPA 314

315 - N 315, SPA 314

LaF - N 124, SPA 124

AR = Avion de Reconnaissance "Dorand" A.R.1 and A.R.2

BL = Bleriot (usually Type XI)

BO = Borel (pre-war seaplanes, not used in combat)

BR = Breguet (usually Type 14 late in war)

C = Caudron (usually G and C types unless otherwise noted)

F = Farman (usually F.40)

HF = Henri Farman (usually H.F.20)

MF = Maurice Farman (usually M.F.7 or M.F.11)

MS = Morane-Saulnier (usually Type L Parasol)

N = Nieuport (11, 16, 17, 24 for scouts, 10 and 12 for 2-seaters)

PS = Paul Schmitt 7

SAL = Salmson 2 A2

SOP = Sopwith Strutters

SPA = SPAD VII and/or XIII

SPA-bi = 2-seater SPADs

V = Voisin (early, MG-armed types)

VB = Voisin Bombers (bigger, later types)

VC = Voisin Cannon (armed with 37mm)

[jeanba 1,915]

That's why I play RoF rather than OFF.

I wanted to fly a french Multi-seater and I had the Breguet.

Of course, now I want others and I lobby for the Sopwith in RoF.

But if WOFF has a good french planeset, I will certianly go for it.

And buy it immediatly if they have tha Cadron G4, G6, R4 or R11 (even just one of those) !

[Bullethead 12]

I should also mention that OBD has said 2-seater careers will be redone so that 2-seater squadrons are more specialized by mission type as they were historically. This has implications for the above list because the French had a system of numbering escadrilles based on their role. Unfortunately, the French weren't consistent in using their numbering system. They sometimes ignored it, changed the rules several times during the war, and sometimes renumbered existing squadrons when the rules changed but usually not. Thus, it's a confusing subject and isn't a very good guide to what the squadron's role was (the plane type is usually a better clue), but it's better than nothing.

 

To start with, there's what I call the "1st Generation" escadrilles, which are those formed from before the war until somewhere in the 1915-1916 timeframe. These were numbered sequentially as created, regardless of role. But in 1916, as the air force expanded and the French got a better idea of what type of units they needed and how to organize them, they established the following system:

 

Escadrilles 1-99 = fighters

Escadrilles 100-199 = dedicated bombers

Escadrilles 200-299 = Heavy Artillery Spotters and Corps d'Armee (army cooperation)

 

Few, if any, of the "1st generation" escadrilles were renumbered, but the 2-seater squadrons with numbers 1-99 were pretty much all army cooperation units, although 1 or 2 were dedicated bombers. But this is why there's a huge block of fighter escadrilles from 67-99 in the list above. Those were all formed in the latter part of 1916 under the new designation system.

 

Fighter squadrons with numbers 1-99 were, for the most part, put into the "Groupes de Chasse". Their main mission was to flood a given area of the front to achieve air superiority with offensive patrols. They hardly ever did other things like escort or attack missions. Most of the French aces were in these units.

 

The 100s are interesting. As far back as 1915, the French formed "Groupes de Bombardement" of multiple bomber escadrilles. These escadrilles provided their own escorts to start with but, eventually, the "Groupes de Bombardement" obtained actual fighter squadrons that were paired with specific bomber squadrons as dedicated escorts. These fighters also defended the bomber bases. That's why there are fighter squadrons in the 100 series, although there were also exceptions like N/SPA 124.

 

I note we don't have any 200-series escadrilles. These are the squadrons that did most of the recon, photography, arty spotting, and frontline tactical bombing. Most of the "1st generation" 2-seater squadrons and some of those fighter squadrons were in here as well, although there were a few 200-series fighter squadrons. Those had the job of protecting the 200-series 2-seaters and doing things like strafing trenches.

 

The 300-series were dedicated interceptors defending specific locations. 313 was at Dunkerque, 314 was at Nancy, and 315 was at Belfort.

[Bullethead 12]

But if WOFF has a good french planeset, I will certianly go for it.

And buy it immediatly if they have tha Cadron G4, G6, R4 or R11 (even just one of those) !

 

Well, fingers crossed :). I myself would love to fly the R.11 because it would provide an excellent view of some truly epic air battles. Imagine riding herd on a formation of 100 or more Breguet 14s that's being attacked by dozens of Fokkers and Albatri in a long, running gun battle deep behind the lines. Just watching all the AI planes duking it out would be great by itself, even if you personally never fired a shot. But sadly, I don't see a single "R" escadrille on the list so I'm afraid that won't be happening any time soon.

 

But OTOH, there are quite a few old French pushers potentially available. Those would provide a lot of fun, too. And not just flying them. They would provide some much-needed variety in what German players face in French sectors in the 1st half of the war.

[jeanba 1,915]

Good links (in french but google translate works well) :

http://www.asoublies1418.fr/Default.asp?397332D3741663E62653356332D36E

 

http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/page_escadrilles_1_a_500.htm

 

Well, fingers crossed :). I myself would love to fly the R.11 because it would provide an excellent view of some truly epic air battles. Imagine riding herd on a formation of 100 or more Breguet 14s that's being attacked by dozens of Fokkers and Albatri in a long, running gun battle deep behind the lines. Just watching all the AI planes duking it out would be great by itself, even if you personally never fired a shot. But sadly, I don't see a single "R" escadrille on the list so I'm afraid that won't be happening any time soon.

I absolutly agree.

And manuevering the R11 in a good position to cover the bomber would be a new and original gaming experience

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Slightly OFF topic...but not...

 

I am really looking forward to one of the features appearing in the new version...that being...you won't get bombed to OFF manager straight away if you land..or get shot down.....(which is not, and never was, a CFS3 issue...as it didn't happen in the original P1_))

 

So, after a scary Dogfight...where you're riddled in Bullets....you can land...listen to the famouse OFF Dog barking..and watch the aerial dance of death as an observer....marvellous

[Bullethead 12]

Good links (in french but google translate works well) :

http://www.asoublies...62653356332D36E

 

http://albindenis.fr...les_1_a_500.htm[/quote[/quote]

I used Albin Denis' site for a lot of the list in my 1st post. I didn't know about the other site, though. Thanks.

 

I can, with difficulty, read French if I'm familiar with the subject matter, but I'm hopeless with speaking and writing it :).

[Bullethead 12]

Slightly OFF topic...but not...

 

I am really looking forward to one of the features appearing in the new version...that being...you won't get bombed to OFF manager straight away if you land..or get shot down.....(which is not, and never was, a CFS3 issue...as it didn't happen in the original P1_))

 

So, after a scary Dogfight...where you're riddled in Bullets....you can land...listen to the famouse OFF Dog barking..and watch the aerial dance of death as an observer....marvellous

 

Yes, I'm looking forward to that as well. I really liked that feature in RB2. And to bring this back on topic, I recall one time where I made a mission in RB2 that was like 60 Breguets being intercepted by 15 or so Fokkers. Whatever it was, it was the most airplanes the game would accept in a mission. And it was totally unplayable as a participant, with like 2 FPS on the system I had at the time. So I changed it to where I just watched from the ground at an airfield and had the Breguets bomb it from low altitude so I could watch the carnage :).

[Olham 164]

Impressive list, Bullet!

jean, I would love to welcome more French flyers in this forum and WOFF - I keep my fingers crossed with you guys.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Olham

[jeanba 1,915]

Impressive list, Bullet!

jean, I would love to welcome more French flyers in this forum and WOFF - I keep my fingers crossed with you guys.

I wrote above what would make me play more frequently OFF / WOFF ...