This may be a dumb question, but...

[+SupGen 78]

All this time I thought I knew everything I needed to know about gunsights and then... While perusing the manual (in search of something else) I see this line under using the PhantomII's LCOSS: In A/G (Air-to-Ground) mode, the sight is manually depressible to 245 mil below the fuselage line. It's not really, is it? In a similar vein, if you set default depression to 245 mils, will it? (In AG mode).

[+Stary 2,426]

then why there are knobs and scales for depression modelled on some Gen2 stock models?

 

Anyone has a way to list full recognizable buttons mapping?

[+SupGen 78]

Stary, thanks for the reply, but...could ya run that past me again? Which models? (Not all, a few examples, please.) I'd like to take a look at them.

[+Stary 2,426]

I think some F-4's do have depression scales and numerical indicators modelled

[+SupGen 78]

OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find 'em.

[+SupGen 78]

Okaay, am I the only one who didn't know that if you set DefaultDepression to any number up to whatever the MaxDepression is set at, the reticle will depress to that Mil setting when you select a dumb bomb? It would seem that if you pretty much fly a standardized attack profile (you know, standardized for you) ie. pop up to 10,000 ft, roll in, dive on the target at aproximately xx degrees, and release at 3,500 to 3,000 ft you could, through trial and error, come up with a DefaultDepression Mil setting that would let you do that with the pipper right on the target. I don't know why I've never noticed this before, maybe because I usually bomb according to Andy Bush's tutorial over at SimHQ; in fact in that article, he mentions the fact that all StrikeFighters aircraft have a reticle depression of 50 mils as if it was unchangeable. I think I just assumed that it was. Everyone who already knew this, please excuse me for rediscovering fire but, for me at least, this is news. As a side note, I did do several searches on the subject and the only thing I came up with was a post by Wrench saying to increase the MaxDepression setting, however this doesn't do anything. There was nothing I could find in the KB (SF1 or SF2), perhaps we could add something so others won't be cruising along in blissful ignorance like I was.

[+SupGen 78]

Well, I guess I'll take that as a yes (I was the only one)!

[+SupGen 78]

 

Anyone has a way to list full recognizable buttons mapping?

 

Stary, what did you mean by this? Is there a way to adjust the sight depression value in-game?

[+SupGen 78]

I know I said I would take the lack of response as a yes, but I find that I really would like to hear it from someone who knows, you can make it really simple: A) SupGen, you effing idiot, how could you not know that! or B) That's news to me, didn't know that. Some response would be appreciated. Thanks.

[+Stary 2,426]

SupGen, you effing idiot, how could you not know that!

SupGen, you effing genius, how could you not know that!

[+ravenclaw_007 7,206]

All this time I thought I knew everything I needed to know about gunsights and then... While perusing the manual (in search of something else) I see this line under using the PhantomII's LCOSS: In A/G (Air-to-Ground) mode, the sight is manually depressible to 245 mil below the fuselage line. It's not really, is it? In a similar vein, if you set default depression to 245 mils, will it? (In AG mode).

 

 

oh yes it is

 

[+SupGen 78]

Thank you, gentlemen; nice to know I can still miss the obvious. That being said though, it is something that gets little or no mention. It's not mentioned (along with a lot of other stuff) in the manual except for the one (incorrect) reference I quoted above, and I was only able to find the one (also misleading) reference here, that I also quoted above. Yet, it's something that would seem to be very useful in-game; in R/L pilots of the era would figure out everything from Roll in Point/Altitude to Dive Angle, Release Height and Sight Depression Mil Setting prior to the mission. Those things were part of the Pre-flight briefing and as such, would be anomalous to a player setting the DefaultDepression prior to a mission. Usually R/L pilots would only change that if conditions at the target warranted a different attack profile. As it doesn't affect the Caged or AA sight settings and in fact, only affects the AG sight if you're carrying iron bombs, it can work in either Single or Campaign Missions; you might not know in advance which missions were going to be AA or AG but you can always fly the AG missions according to your "favorite" attack profile anyway.It just seems like something that should get a little more attention and discussion here at CA, as it seems it could be very and "immersive". Considering the beefing that goes on about the unrealistic application of certain things in SF2, when you consider the restrictions of the Pre-Flight briefing this is actually fairly well implemented and no one talks about how to use it in-game. When used according to Andy Bush's articles here: http://simhq.com/_air9/air_272a.html and here: http://simhq.com/_air9/air_273a.html it could make it fairly easy to use attack profiles other than your "favorite" that you've practised over and over. I've been flying some practise missions on the Mescalero terrain with both the stock F-4J and Ravenclaw's new F-4E_75 and results are very repeatable. Just some thoughts; by the way, Ravenclaw I did know about the R/L function of the sight, nice illustrations, though , and while I'm at it, real nice Phantoms! As a final note, if I'd known in school that I was going to need Trig to drop bombs on targets from a Phantom, I'd have paid more attention!

Edited April 9, 2013 by SupGen

[+ravenclaw_007 7,206]

i can send you the entire aircrew weapons delivery manual for the F-4F , if you like to stady a manual

 

by the way , what manual are you talking about ?????

 

as for the game , i had a lot of problems with the gunsight in AG mod specialy if i use rocket-pods , but to deliver boms i found it allways easy to do and mostly i got a direct hit on the target

[+SupGen 78]

i can send you the entire aircrew weapons delivery manual for the F-4F , if you like to stady a manual

 

by the way , what manual are you talking about ?????

 

as for the game , i had a lot of problems with the gunsight in AG mod specialy if i use rocket-pods , but to deliver boms i found it allways easy to do and mostly i got a direct hit on the target

 

1) Yeah, send that F-4F manual, a little reading never hurts.

 

2) The manual I was refering to is the game manual.

 

3) Yeah, rockets will require you to use a different DefaultDepression than bombs because othey'll have a different impact point in relation to the aircrafts line of flight.

 

I've had pretty good luck bombing as well, using Andy Bush's tutorial here: http://simhq.com/_air/air_055a.html . I had read the two articles I referenced above but, because I thought the depression setting was not adjustable in-game, I had considered them just good as "background material". Now that I know that the depression setting is adjustable they've assumed, for me at least, a little more importance. For instance, flying a low altitude level bombing mission (+/-1700ft, +/-380knts, slicks) in the F-4J, using a DefaultDepression setting of 250 mils allows you to fly straight and level until the pipper is over the target, pickle your bombs, and voila, mission sucess. Granted you must have targetting boxes turned on as the pipper is down around the top of the radar screen, but Migbuster's "Diane" mod has the same requirement and I think it's pretty cool. If you take some notes, it should be possible to develop a Sight Depression Table, much like I expect to find in that F-4F manual I hope you're sending me. As in number three above, after some trial and error, you should be able to come up with settings for particular attack profiles (speed, dive angles, and distance to the target) that would enable you to put the pipper directly on the target and put rockets right on the bullseye. I don't know, I think this is pretty cool, and like I said, it's definitely new to me.

[+SupGen 78]

So, were all those tables I was expecting in the manual Ravenclaw sent me there? Oh yes they were.:

 

 

Thing is, the manual is password protected, so I had to print the pages I wanted and scan them back into my computer; this took a little while. Tomorrow I will upload a detailed analysis of those pages; stay tuned. Or not, you might want to run for the hills!

Edited April 11, 2013 by SupGen