Well... That's just funky...

[Heck 496]

I'm working on a different decal system for my Navy F-4s in SF2 Vietnam on a full 5 merged install. I have 8 decals on the fuselage_p mesh, which seems to be the maximum decals per mesh these days. If I have the object detail settings set to high in the options, all 8 decals show up, but I get no bump mapping, of course. When I set the object detail settings to unlimited, I get bump mapping, but the last decals on the mesh, the bunos, disappear. Is there any ini setting that can be changed to have both? I realize it might be a limitation imposed by my 1 gig Nvidia 610 graphics card, but I was just wondering...

[+daddyairplanes 8,643]

how does your decal breakdown go? 'im working something simlar and currently have a bln(for the radome), modex, sdl and sdr (for service, squadron and insignia on the intakes), walkway and wingtips (self explanatory) and then the BuNo, although i am debating combining a serial number with the Buno or doing that seperately. may want to consider a different layout to consolidate space and amount of tga's going on there.

[Heck 496]

Below is my modified decal.ini. What I've done is combine the nationname and squadronname decals on Navy planes to free two decal slots on the fuselage_p mesh, so I can add the two squadron stripe (as I call them) decals, which contain stripes, best of the east/west callouts, carrier name, etc. As I said, this scheme works perfectly (although I am a lousy artist ), when I've selected high in the options ini for object textures. As soon as I select unlimited for object textures, the two last decals on the fuselage_p mesh disappear, which happen to be the bunos in this case. Used to be that the mesh would become invisible if you had too many decals on it; now the offending decals are dropped off. It has to be that the bump map is acting as a decal, and has priority in the sim hierarchy if you select unlimited textures, so it's dropping the bunos. Unless someone knows of something else that might be causing it to happen.

 

[Decal001]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=InsigniaFuseR

Position=4.63,-0.167

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.85

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal002]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=InsigniaFuseL

Position=4.63,-0.167

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.85

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal003]

MeshName=wing_left_outer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingL

Position=-4.241,-0.94

Rotation=40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal004]

MeshName=wing_right_outer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=BOTTOM

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingL

Position=4.241,-0.94

Rotation=40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal005]

MeshName=wing_left_inner

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingL

Position=-4.241,-0.94

Rotation=40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal006]

MeshName=wing_right_inner

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=BOTTOM

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingL

Position=4.241,-0.94

Rotation=40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal007]

MeshName=wing_left_outer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=BOTTOM

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingR

Position=-4.241,-0.94

Rotation=-40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal008]

MeshName=wing_right_outer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingR

Position=4.241,-0.94

Rotation=-40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal009]

MeshName=wing_left_inner

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=BOTTOM

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingR

Position=-4.241,-0.94

Rotation=-40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal010]

MeshName=wing_right_inner

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=InsigniaWingR

Position=4.241,-0.94

Rotation=-40.0

Scale=2.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal011]

MeshName=vertical_stabilizer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=FinFlashTiltedR

Position=-4.95,1.48

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.80

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal012]

MeshName=vertical_stabilizer

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=FinFlashTiltedL

Position=-4.95,1.48

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.80

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal013]

MeshName=rudder

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=RudderStripes

Position=-7.00,1.61

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal014]

MeshName=rudder

DecalLevel=0

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=RudderStripes

Position=-7.00,1.61

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal015]

MeshName=splitter_plate_left

DecalLevel=3

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=kill

Position=5.995,-.141

Rotation=00.0

Scale=0.75

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal016]

MeshName=vertical_stabilizer

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=F4_SqTailR

Position=-5.05,1.2

Rotation=0.0

Scale=5.25

DecalMaxLOD=4

 

[Decal017]

MeshName=vertical_stabilizer

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=F4_SqTailL

Position=-5.05,1.2

Rotation=0.0

Scale=5.25

DecalMaxLOD=4

 

[Decal018]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=F4_SQSTRIPEL

Position=0.050,0.200

//Position=0.550,0.200

Scale=6.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal019]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=F4_SQSTRIPER

Position=0.050,0.200

//Position=0.550,0.200

Scale=6.5

DecalMaxLOD=3

 

[Decal020]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=SqName

Position=-1.6,0.33

Rotation=0.0

Scale=2.2

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal021]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=SqName

Position=-1.6,0.33

Rotation=0.0

Scale=2.2

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal022]

MeshName=fuselage_front

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=USNFighterNum

Position=7.88,-0.35

Rotation=0.0

Scale=0.84

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal023]

MeshName=fuselage_front

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=USNFighterNum

Position=7.88,-0.35

Rotation=0.0

Scale=0.84

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal024]

MeshName=rudder

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=F4_SqTailR

Position=-5.05,1.2

Rotation=0.0

Scale=5.25

DecalMaxLOD=4

 

[Decal025]

MeshName=rudder

DecalLevel=1

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=F4_SqTailL

Position=-5.05,1.2

Rotation=0.0

Scale=5.25

DecalMaxLOD=4

 

[Decal026]

MeshName=flap_inner_right

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=USNFighterNum

Position= 2.08,-1.48

Rotation=-13.0

Scale=0.70

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal027]

MeshName=flap_inner_left

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=TOP

FilenameFormat=USNFighterNum

Position=-2.08,-1.48

Rotation=13.0

Scale=0.70

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal028]

MeshName=gear_door_front_outer_1

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=BOTTOM

FilenameFormat=USN2Num

Position=0.0,7.10

Rotation=0.0

Scale=0.30

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal029]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=RIGHT

FilenameFormat=USNF4BuNo

Position=-2.94,0.64

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

[Decal030]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=USNF4BuNo

Position=-2.94,0.64

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=2

[+daddyairplanes 8,643]

A smarter mind will have to tell you why the bumpmap id affected. As to the decals thats really odd as i think i have more on my fuselage-P and dont recall this issue. But one thing i do is to combine the branch name, fuselage insignia, and sqn name all in one tga. Sure its big, but it works. For sqns like VF102 with extra markings, i included those as well.

[Heck 496]

A smarter mind will have to tell you why the bumpmap id affected. As to the decals thats really odd as i think i have more on my fuselage-P and dont recall this issue. But one thing i do is to combine the branch name, fuselage insignia, and sqn name all in one tga. Sure its big, but it works. For sqns like VF102 with extra markings, i included those as well.

Hope you post them when you're finished, I'd love to have them.

[+russouk2004 6,951]

[Decal030]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=USNF4BuNo

Position=-2.94,0.64

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

 

Should buno be decalmaxlod=3 ?

[Heck 496]

[Decal030]

MeshName=fuselage_P

DecalLevel=2

DecalFacing=LEFT

FilenameFormat=USNF4BuNo

Position=-2.94,0.64

Rotation=0.0

Scale=1.5

DecalMaxLOD=2

 

 

Should buno be decalmaxlod=3 ?

 

Just tried setting it to 3. Same thing happens. When I use high texture settings for objects, the bunos are there, but when I set unlimited textures, they disappear. Gotta have something to do with the amount of texture memory my video card has, or something similar. It seems like the sim is reading the bump map as if it's a decal, and in this instance it's overloading the mesh.

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

Bump map take out one decal slot the same whit specular map s that i i dont use specular maps unsells one aks me to so you only got 7 decals per mesh or 6 if specular his added.

[Heck 496]

Bump map take out one decal slot the same whit specular map s that i i dont use specular maps unsells one aks me to so you only got 7 decals per mesh or 6 if specular his added.

Thanks, Cocas. I'll just flly using high texture settings. In this case I'd rather have the decals than the bump map. At least the whole mesh doesn't disappear any more, like it used to when you overloaded a mesh.

[+Swordsman422 61]

I'm not 100% sure of what you are trying to accomplish, if you are making an effort at keeping the skins generic or if you are making squadron-specific skins.

 

If you are doing the skins as squadron specific, then you might try to unify as much information on each decal as you can. MyTai01 back in the days of SFP1, created an excellent decal map for the Thirdwire F-4. Have a look at some of his work for some good examples of how to combine multiple graphics onto one decal specifically for this jet. You should then be able to accomplish a lot of jet-specific markings while saving space on both your decal layout and HD.

 

If you are attempting to keep the skins generic so that they can be used by any squadron... well that's a totally different story. I wish that TK had expanded the decal levels so that certain levels might look at 2 variables (such as aircraft number AND squadron number) or even 3 (aircraft number and squadron number and carrier number) instead of just 1. As it is, his system is still one of the best for creating excellent skins and getting some good BuNo-specific markings.

 

Good luck. I am as much a Phantom Phile as I am a Tomcat lover, so I look forward to whatever you create.

[Heck 496]

If you are attempting to keep the skins generic so that they can be used by any squadron... well that's a totally different story. I wish that TK had expanded the decal levels so that certain levels might look at 2 variables (such as aircraft number AND squadron number) or even 3 (aircraft number and squadron number and carrier number) instead of just 1. As it is, his system is still one of the best for creating excellent skins and getting some good BuNo-specific markings.

 

Good luck. I am as much a Phantom Phile as I am a Tomcat lover, so I look forward to whatever you create.

 

What I'm attempting to do involves the use of the Squadronlist.ini and the modified decals ini posted above to put more markings on my SF2 Vietnam Navy Phantoms, ala Mytai's way of doing it. I'm adding squadrons to the list: Vf-114 66, Vf-143 65, etc., and adding information to the decals, such as carrier name, stripes, best of the west/east, etc. Again, ala Mytai. I've run into a few problems: 1) The disappearing bunos mentioned above, if you use unlimited object textures, 2) Some of the decal information can't be placed in its historically correct position because of decal stretching, which distorts them at certain view angles, and 3) I suck as a graphic artist. So, if any true graphic artist wants to take the decal.ini posted above and run with this idea, please do. I'll continue to putter with mine, but I'm sure someone with talent will provide results better than mine:

 

So. this is essentially a modified stock scheme, where you'll chose one of TK's skin choices, and a squadron, and wind up with different decals for different periods of time, if the squadron in question changed their markings. I'm also using 256X256 size decals, like TK's originals, so people with older systems (like I once had) should be able to use them without issues.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Heck

[+Swordsman422 61]

The best way to improve your skills as a graphic artist is to just keep practicing. Here's kind of a public secret that doesn't hurt either. A lot of us skinners are also avid modelers and we use scans from our own decal collections in order to get the graphics we need. I am not ashamed to say that several of my decal graphics come right from the pages of my physical decal collections and are then modified in Photoshop. I would not be able to create some of the more complicated graphics otherwise.

 

At any rate, I absolutely look forward to your efforts. That VF-11 set looks awesome! Keep it up!

Edited May 17, 2013 by Swordsman422

[Heck 496]

The best way to improve your skills as a graphic artist is to just keep practicing. Here's kind of a public secret that doesn't hurt either. A lot of us skinners are also avid modelers and we use scans from our own decal collections in order to get the graphics we need. I am not ashamed to say that several of my decal graphics come right from the pages of my physical decal collections and are then modified in Photoshop. I would not be able to create some of the more complicated graphics otherwise.

 

At any rate, I absolutely look forward to your efforts. That VF-11 set looks awesome! Keep it up!

 

Thanks for your encouragement, Swordsman. It'll be a slow process, given real life issues at the moment (getting married toward the end of this summer, etc.) but I'm determined to finish it, because I do like the results and ease of use of this kind of scheme. Now to find a better Pukin dog for my Pukin Dog 65, I don't like the way it turned out.

 

[+Swordsman422 61]

Tell you what, I'll send you something this evening when I get home from work that might help with that.

[Heck 496]

Pukin Dogs 65 version 2. With a tip of the hat to you, Swordsman. Thanks.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Heck

[+daddyairplanes 8,643]

Hope you post them when you're finished, I'd love to have them.

I'm totally redoing the project starting with redoing the planes for the era (_78, _81), then i'm gonna get the decal inis fixed back this week. I'll shoot ya a copy if you still want after i get the first done. Making big use of the skin in main folder for this project as its a by year breakdown. I'm also using myTais work as a template but first i'm doing the LoViz and TPS years. Sorry i didnt respond sooner, i honestly forgot where this thread was

 

Also what you have so far looks good. My trick is images from the internet..... esp of decals from model kits!

[Heck 496]

I'm totally redoing the project starting with redoing the planes for the era (_78, _81), then i'm gonna get the decal inis fixed back this week. I'll shoot ya a copy if you still want after i get the first done. Making big use of the skin in main folder for this project as its a by year breakdown. I'm also using myTais work as a template but first i'm doing the LoViz and TPS years. Sorry i didnt respond sooner, i honestly forgot where this thread was

 

Also what you have so far looks good. My trick is images from the internet..... esp of decals from model kits!

 

I'd love to have them. Thanks!

[+daddyairplanes 8,643]

No prob. Also will send you my squadronlist ini. Has every tactical Phantom user in the US as well as msny others. No need to add anyone with this, just number your decals accordingly. Also has a big buffer between stock and the start of mine so patching doesnt screw the works up. Will shoot you that in the morning