Do I get WOFF? Need to know what AI is like.

[Fortiesboy 3]

Hello

 

As a long time player of OFF, I am aware of what a great sim it is.  Folks are praising the WOFF graphics but I find the OFF graphics to be great - I don't need any improvement there ( though I wouldn't turn it away! )

 

However, having returned to OFF after a layoff ( install got porked and i thought I'd wait for WOFF- but I'm XP), I find the biggest disappointment of OFF is the AI in a dogfight.

If we get low particularly then the enemy seems to lose interest and starts stalling  etc and can be left alone to eventually crash.

 

And as i fly mainly QC dogfights ( don't fly campaign ) then I'd be looking to WOFF to be significantly better in this area. 

 

As I say, I'm running XP  and i first ruled out WOFF having seen the required specs, but some posts from those with XP have been encouraging and I would risk it - if the AI fought better than in OFF.

 

I haven't seen much comment about the AI.  Could you WOFF flyers please tell me how you find it?

 

On a slightly different tack, could one of the devs tell me the position - If I buy WOFF and  I try it on my present machine, ( it may or may not run OK ), can I later install and fly it on a future computer that I may get? 

 

Thanks , cheers and happy Xmas to all

[33LIMA 972]

I'm interested in the answer to this too, tho I also place high value in the (to my eyes, best in breed) new cockpit, plane and terrain textures (the latter in particular are approaching photorealistic; amazing work) plus the better inflight map, the better integration between Manager and campaign, the extra flyables, the 'dot mode' visibility option which should reduce reliance on on-screen aids, mission improvements etc.

 

On the AI front, the particular points that interest me most are:

 

- do they AI fly formation any better? Specifically:

            - do they fly somewhat tighter formations?

            - do they no longer slide well wide, when the player leader makes a turn?

            - do they often fall below and behind a player flight leader, on the climb?

 

- re two seaters and the former CFS3-style 'bomber tactics', do they now do more than maintain (rather wide!) formation and shoot back? Is their repetoire more varied?

 

- how well do the new wingman commands work eg the 'split' command to avoid the AI following down a damaged player leader; and can you still order a general flight attack by hitting the A key a couple of times, as opposed to having to turn on the TAC, select a target before hitting 'A'?;

 

- does the AI still 'rolleroaster' a lot, at low level? Pre-release videos seem to show a really major improvement in AI low-level behaviour, keen to know if this is sustained;

 

- to what extent does the AI still tend to 'follow you home', even to the extent of German scouts flying a longish way into enemy territory? This is a frequent problem in sims and I have the impression OFF's new AI's more selective, situational thinking will reduce this 'target fixation', even if we players may take a while to get used to seeing flightsim AI that does not always robotically obey Lanoe Hawker's 'attack EVERYTHING' dictum.

[Olham 164]

Couldn't try it out yet really, Fortiesboy, but welcome back, old chap!

 

You may want to read also on the new "Wings Over Flanders Fields" forum here:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/372/1/Wings_Over_Flanders_Fields

[Shiloh 12]

At this early juncture, I would say the AI fights in a more spirited manner. It's really tough to get a clean shot on their six as they won't give you an angle without a dozen or more highly-evasive maneuvers that I think anyone would find challenging. They fly like a person fighting for their lives and that's the best I can put it. I've also seen them break for their lines more than once and live to fight another day.

 

Many times, the AI faked a spin and pulled out when close to the turf but you won't know if they're faking unless you follow them down. As for fighting just above the turf, I haven't had too much experience down there with WOFF yet.

 

I used to come home with up to 4-5 victories at times on OFF. Those days are over.

[CaptSopwith 18]

Good to see you, Fortiesboy! Hope you're doing well. I don't have WOFF just yet but after reading over the list of modifications to the AI code for the game, I was deeply impressed. It sounds like WOFF really is one of the last (if not the last) great Single Player, Dynamic Campaign Driven, flight simulators of its kind. In addition to the comments left above, I thought I'd direct you to Hellshade's preview videos which demonstrates the breadth of knowledge that the AI now possess - particularly at low altitude which used to be their Achilles Heel. See what you think! :)

 

[Javito1986 14]

I'm interested in the answer to this too, tho I also place high value in the (to my eyes, best in breed) new cockpit, plane and terrain textures (the latter in particular are approaching photorealistic; amazing work) plus the better inflight map, the better integration between Manager and campaign, the extra flyables, the 'dot mode' visibility option which should reduce reliance on on-screen aids, mission improvements etc.

 

On the AI front, the particular points that interest me most are:

 

- do they AI fly formation any better? Specifically:

            - do they fly somewhat tighter formations?

            - do they no longer slide well wide, when the player leader makes a turn?

            - do they often fall below and behind a player flight leader, on the climb?

 

- re two seaters and the former CFS3-style 'bomber tactics', do they now do more than maintain (rather wide!) formation and shoot back? Is their repetoire more varied?

 

- how well do the new wingman commands work eg the 'split' command to avoid the AI following down a damaged player leader; and can you still order a general flight attack by hitting the A key a couple of times, as opposed to having to turn on the TAC, select a target before hitting 'A'?;

 

- does the AI still 'rolleroaster' a lot, at low level? Pre-release videos seem to show a really major improvement in AI low-level behaviour, keen to know if this is sustained;

 

- to what extent does the AI still tend to 'follow you home', even to the extent of German scouts flying a longish way into enemy territory? This is a frequent problem in sims and I have the impression OFF's new AI's more selective, situational thinking will reduce this 'target fixation', even if we players may take a while to get used to seeing flightsim AI that does not always robotically obey Lanoe Hawker's 'attack EVERYTHING' dictum.

 

 

 

I can answer at least some of these:

 

1. Not this one I'm afraid. As a mere 2nd Lieutenant, I never fly formation lead. However, I can tell you that the other pilots maintain formation wonderfully, and more importantly, I can keep up with them and maintain formation as well. This was never, ever possible in OFF because AI aircraft didn't have to adhere to the same limitations you do. In WOFF, I keep up with them and fly alongside in my designated area for the entire mission, from beginning to end.

 

2. I've seen two-seaters maintain close formation and mount quite a spirited defense, but I can't say whether or not this happens every time because I've only done 20 missions or so and only run into two-seaters a handful of times.

 

3. Again, I never issue any orders from tail-end Charlie. I'm just a pleb!

 

4. The AI never rollercoasters anymore at low-level. This is gone entirely in my experience. Also, the OFF tendency for AI to dive immediately upon making contact (which annoyed me to no end) is also gone. I've seen AI planes make mistakes and crash on occasion, but I really think it's intentional and working as planned. For instance, on two occasions I've seen AI pilots in my squadron make fatal errors. In the first, the fellow collided with the flight leader just before contact with a flight of recon planes (he actually survived, the flight leader was the one who died), and in the second a pilot ripped his own wings off during a dive. On both occasions, the AI pilot's dossier listed average to below average morale and meh flying skills.

 

Also, I should note that after the mid-air collision, the rest of the flight immediately abandoned the attack on the two-seaters and went home.

 

5. The AI never follows you home anymore, "duels to the death" are completely over. Every single air battle I've had in WOFF has ended more or less indecisively. Nobody, on either side, continues fighting to the last man. During the largest air battle I've seen so far in my campaign, in which 20+ aircraft were engaged at once, my squadron only claimed two Germans at a loss of one Camel crash landing and being written off. In OFF, a battle like that would have only ended with one side's complete annihilation. Also, in my most recent "report from the front," I mention a Jasta 15 AI pilot that engaged me and deliberately broke contact and headed for home when neither of us could get the advantage over the other.

 

Basically, WOFF's AI equals the AI in Rowan's Battle of Britain (which I played A LOT, along with BoB2) and very possibly surpasses it, given the sheer number of variables and decision making the AI makes at any given time.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Javito1986

[corsaire31 7]

I suppose it is with WOFF like with OFF greatly depending of the settings you use in the workshop. I fly OFF with the last HPW FM/EW and Damage mods which greatly improve how the AI planes fly, and using RSS - SIA settings for my campaigns I am happy when I score 1 victory in a mission, and I am flying sims since the early 90s.

In my Jasta 5 campaign, my last pilot who flew the second half of 1916 had only 8 victories for 58 missions... ( given that there were many missions without any enemy contact) 

[Olham 164]

Today I could do some flying, and although I'm still having problems running the sim

on my system, I could make two sorties.

And I must say: LOVELY!

 

The new AI behaves quite different from OFF. I noticed the following:

- only 1 from 4 DH-5 decided to have a go at me and came down, while the others flew home

- a single SPAD which was chasing Rudolf Windisch's Albatros D.V pissed off, when I fired after him.

  He didn't turn and attack me - he flew away from us in a 90° angle, and I let him go.

  He might have been tired, hungry, or was hit wounded?

  However - Windisch and I returned to base alone.

  I had this great feeling again, that we describe by "immersion"!

[Shiloh 12]

Nice Olham. I'm glad you're getting some flying time. I'm having trouble getting my system to run it smoothly as well but I'm trying some things. I may have to post back here with my specs/settings and see what I can figure it out.

[Fortiesboy 3]

Thanks for the replies chaps, and the "welcome back" messages.

 

I think it's worth a gamble to get it. I wouldn't really hesitate if i was Win 7, but I'll have to see how my trusty XP will handle it.

 

After the Xmas hols I'll pull the trigger. 

 

Merry Xmas to you all