LOD Viewer

[amariani 4,661]

11 hours ago, mue said:

That aren't shadows. The "darkening" is caused by (diffuse) lighting: The more a part of the object faces the light source (in the LODViewer the light is at eye position) the brighter is becomes, and vice versa.
The LODViewer GUI hasn't an option to enable/disable lighting (yet). But as a workaround you can adapt the fragment shader diff_decal.frag in the LODViewer's shaders directory to decrease or disable the diffuse lighting.
The attached shader completely disables the diffuse lighting. HTH.

diff_decal.frag

Thanks mue!

 

[orsin 153]

@mue

 

Hi Mue,

I have a few requests.

1. Is it possible to add a function, such that when an element is selected in the model, the viewer shows the X Y Z axis and the base point of the individual element? This is very needed for cockpit modding to do stand-in models. It will make life a lot easier.

 

2. Is it possible to include a function in this Lod Viewer, such that node names can be changed/renamed? There has been a number of older models which were created without care, and model elements are using repetitive names (e.g. 5 different elements all use lazy names such as Object 01) which confuses the engine and limit possibility for modding.

Right now change of node name can be achieved using manual process in HEX editors for some models, but it is a difficult job when there are 50-60 items of a few repetitive name and you are trying to tell which one is which. It is also hard to handle in HEX editor as sometimes different model utilises different encoding. It will make life a lot easier.

 

3. is it possible to add a function, such that an x, y, or z axis based, invisible parent with definable base point can be added to a node? We are not technically adding mesh here, but adding flexibility for existing items in the model to rotate on x,y or z axis

 

4. Is it possible to include a function to delete a node? This is much needed when modding stand in cockpits or variant of aircraft which we need to hide things. Right now people can add new items to an existing aircraft model using the Fake Pilot method, but it is very, very restrictive to remove anything from the existing model of an aircraft, e.g. low polygon/ugly items.

Yes I realise this one is a little dangerous, but people need it and many have been doing it using workarounds for years when creating stand in cockpits. Instead of deleting people move elements away, but still it creates problems in different scenarios to cockpits, and like said it is much harder to do it to aircraft models.

Edited July 28, 2023 by orsin

[+Sundowner 4,516]

So, what you're saying is " can you make us a tool for hacking other folks work?"

Why not just get max or blender and make your own.

 

[+Soulfreak 6,351]

2 hours ago, orsin said:

@mue

 

Hi Mue,

I have a few requests.

1. Is it possible to add a function, such that when an element is selected in the model, the viewer shows the X Y Z axis and the base point of the individual element? This is very needed for cockpit modding to do stand-in models. It will make life a lot easier.

 

2. Is it possible to include a function in this Lod Viewer, such that node names can be changed/renamed? There has been a number of older models which were created without care, and model elements are using repetitive names (e.g. 5 different elements all use lazy names such as Object 01) which confuses the engine and limit possibility for modding.

Right now change of node name can be achieved using manual process in HEX editors for some models, but it is a difficult job when there are 50-60 items of a few repetitive name and you are trying to tell which one is which. It is also hard to handle in HEX editor as sometimes different model utilises different encoding. It will make life a lot easier.

 

3. is it possible to add a function, such that an x, y, or z axis based, invisible parent with definable base point can be added to a node? We are not technically adding mesh here, but adding flexibility for existing items in the model to rotate on x,y or z axis

 

4. Is it possible to include a function to delete a node? This is much needed when modding stand in cockpits or variant of aircraft which we need to hide things. Right now people can add new items to an existing aircraft model using the Fake Pilot method, but it is very, very restrictive to remove anything from the existing model of an aircraft, e.g. low polygon/ugly items.

Yes I realise this one is a little dangerous, but people need it and many have been doing it using workarounds for years when creating stand in cockpits. Instead of deleting people move elements away, but still it creates problems in different scenarios to cockpits, and like said it is much harder to do it to aircraft models.

as the name says lod-viewer

So it is a viewer, not an editor!!!

It is a tool to make skinning / modding easier.

It is not for editing or reworking someones models.

Just my 2 cents.

[+Jimbib 677]

Second post in this thread shows how to remove a mesh from an aircraft with an .ini edit, just remember that all linked meshes will disappear with it.

 

[orsin 153]

8 hours ago, Soulfreak said:

as the name says lod-viewer

So it is a viewer, not an editor!!!

It is a tool to make skinning / modding easier.

It is not for editing or reworking someones models.

Just my 2 cents.

Like said, I am asking for function for things people already are doing. It maybe a different and easier way, but there is no fundamental difference.

[orsin 153]

8 hours ago, Jimbib said:

Second post in this thread shows how to remove a mesh from an aircraft with an .ini edit, just remember that all linked meshes will disappear with it.

 

this is good thinking. However i am not sure if hidden nodes count polygons. For example, the new MIG-25 model has a landing gear system pipeline which itself counts for 1.5MB of size of LOD. It is causing a frame rate drop which i will definitely want to remove. I am not sure if the destroyed node method resolve an issue like this. Likely not.

[+Sundowner 4,516]

13 hours ago, orsin said:

@mue

 

 

 

 There has been a number of older models which were created without care, and model elements are using repetitive names (e.g. 5 different elements all use lazy names such as Object 01) which confuses the engine and limit possibility for modding.

Right now change of node name can be achieved using manual process in HEX editors for some models, but it is a difficult job when there are 50-60 items of a few repetitive name and you are trying to tell which one is which. It is also hard to handle in HEX editor as sometimes different model utilises different encoding. It will make life a lot easier.

 

 

 

 

Interesting choice of words  regarding how people make their models, I seriously think its about time you start to make some "real" models yourself instead of just moaning about not having the means to hack/pirate other folks work.

This place seems to be rife with folks that just want the quick fix solution nowadays.....the real mod makers are getting fewer and fewer or just going "underground" so to speak.

[+EricJ 3,937]

I guess contacting the mod author is just too passe. I mean if you can do it via Ini I don't mind, but actually doing that to a virgin model doesn't sound right. I mean there are some honest applications for it, but I don't see why the mod author could at least fix the problem rather than somebody coming in and modding it. Granted there's the issue of the mod author not communicating, but realistically "fixing" it and the CombatAce Agreement kinda defeats itself in some ways too. It's a touchy subject.

[+mue 707]

14 hours ago, orsin said:

Is it possible to add a function, such that when an element is selected in the model, the viewer shows the X Y Z axis and the base point of the individual element?

It's already there: View->Show Pivot Points of Selected Nodes (or via the icon in the toolbar)

Regarding adding edititing functionalities: I don't plan to implement any of that.

[Wrench 9,460]

Quote

contacting the mod author is just too passe

considering that 98.6% of all modelers are looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone from the community.

I can see what he's saying, but disagree with the reasoning. Sometimes, a house can't be fixed, and has to be torn down and rebuilt. Same with the models. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of them ranging back to the early 2000s that no ini edits will fix. NEW BUILDS are required.

[+EricJ 3,937]

24 minutes ago, Wrench said:

considering that 98.6% of all modelers are looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone from the community.

I can see what he's saying, but disagree with the reasoning. Sometimes, a house can't be fixed, and has to be torn down and rebuilt. Same with the models. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of them ranging back to the early 2000s that no ini edits will fix. NEW BUILDS are required.

I mean I sometimes go to other games (Like Arma 3 took precedence) as my main focus (I think I'll mod, not sure when A4 comes out) but I always check here, so while I don't make any models for SF2, I still need to be "around" to maintain my stuff. But I get it that people lose interest in a game that has no support (TK is apparently updating the mobile games monthly as it seems), but it's understandable. And agreed, if it's too old some new builds must be done and such.

[orsin 153]

20 hours ago, Sundowner said:

Interesting choice of words  regarding how people make their models, I seriously think its about time you start to make some "real" models yourself instead of just moaning about not having the means to hack/pirate other folks work.

This place seems to be rife with folks that just want the quick fix solution nowadays.....the real mod makers are getting fewer and fewer or just going "underground" so to speak.

 

This will be the last post in this discussion from me.

Before this discussion close and leading to a separate tool that achieve these functions. I would like to clarify the intent - it is to provide limited, and easier way to mod objects after seeing too many authors left their models behind for good or bad, and try to allow more consistent way of modding to make model live longer. Regardless how capable one can be, even Sundowner e.g., we all have limited time and it is impractical for anyone to recreate a model from scratch when there are just a few aspects that need to improve from the existing. Calling a desire to improve as hacking is an overreaction...

 

And the calls for the easier ways, are for the reason that INI edits being inconsistent in approach, error-prone,  and sets barrier for new members to do the 3 most frequent tasks below. It is also hard to track every INI to get idea of how the previous contributor mod one way or the other, from authors to successors.

1. move nodes around

2. hide nodes

3. make nodes spin

 

If we want to be a healthy community, we should at least think whether people are just asking things for genuine need and good intent, before going down the avenue of conspiracy. The latter is not a constructive approach and is not likely to get us anywhere. No matter how you consider me well versed in wording what I am telling.

 

Here are the real example of what I experience in LOD of scenario 2,3,4, which correspond to my request 2,3,4 since #1 is already there. Just to show where my requests are from

 

2. Is it possible to include a function in this Lod Viewer, such that node names can be changed/renamed? There has been a number of older models which were created without care, and model elements are using repetitive names (e.g. 5 different elements all use lazy names such as Object 01) which confuses the engine and limit possibility for modding.

Right now change of node name can be achieved using manual process in HEX editors for some models, but it is a difficult job when there are 50-60 items of a few repetitive name and you are trying to tell which one is which. It is also hard to handle in HEX editor as sometimes different model utilises different encoding. It will make life a lot easier.

Not necessarily a example for repetitive naming of nodes in one object although that still happen so often. Anyways, without renaming, how are these black block nodes in the model ever going to be called??

 

 

 

3. is it possible to add a function, such that an x, y, or z axis based, invisible parent with definable base point can be added to a node? We are not technically adding mesh here, but adding flexibility for existing items in the model to rotate on x,y or z axis

Example - 1 layer of parenting node is never gonna work for Kashtan. Gun and Missile pitch angle will interfere with each other and gun is shotting at the sky all the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Is it possible to include a function to delete a node? This is much needed when modding stand in cockpits or variant of aircraft which we need to hide things. Right now people can add new items to an existing aircraft model using the Fake Pilot method, but it is very, very restrictive to remove anything from the existing model of an aircraft, e.g. low polygon/ugly items.

Yes I realise this one is a little dangerous, but people need it and many have been doing it using workarounds for years when creating stand in cockpits. Instead of deleting people move elements away, but still it creates problems in different scenarios to cockpits, and like said it is much harder to do it to aircraft models.

Example - These models fixed in the deck would have stayed there forever, and we'd never use random generated parked aircraft by SF2NA. if it wasn't Fubar512 did another release that deleted these. Removing node is a capability needed.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by orsin

[anunk47 285]

I'm not gonna B*ttkissin' in this thread, I just have not say THANK YOU enough for this tool and others app that Mr. Mue created.. 
Since know how about Lod and other tools, I've spent more time and effort in Photoshop, Blender and Lod Viewer than in the game itself.. (and I think I'm not alone in this.. ).
As Mr. VF-111 said, I'm goin' Underground (for now) because my works are lame, I've contribute nothin' but crappy screenshot.. maybe one day I can make something that other can enjoy.

I plays SF for FUN, Lod Viewer and other Tools make the game Funnier, and kind people here gave more Funniest feeling. 
So, Arigathanks Gozaimuch. 

regards, 
Hikikomori guys

[+Sundowner 4,516]

If you need to change any mesh names etc inside a lod for any reason to "correct" issues which have been around since the original author made the model, whether you like it or not is hacking the lod.

If you or anybody else needs to do this for their own use is fine by me but if you're the type that wants to do this just to re-upload it and say "hey look what I've done, I'm so clever" well in my book its a pirated lod.

The amount of time spent pissing about with this sort of stuff would be better spent learning how to actually make models.......it's fun (sometimes) and very satisfying to produce something with your own hands.......it may not be perfect but neither is the lod you're trying to hack.