The Mysteries of Effective Artillery

[+Piecemeal 450]

During the rebuilding of my Sf2 mods I decided to try and look into the possibility of solving the reason why in-game artillery never manages to throw rounds further than 2km.

 

 

(Take no notice of the extended tracers - I'm using them to better judge the trajectories of the rounds!)

 

I rather suspect it's got something to do with these lines in the _DATA.ini:

 

GroundObjectRole=ARTILLERY

 

RangeFinder=2

BallisticComputer=-0

(the last two lines may have a big factor to play here, if only the correct numbers were known)

 

 Anybody got some advice on how to remedy this little riddle?

[Wrench 9,461]

Look at the Iowa's data ini  ... the numbers are quite larger (well, given they're for a 16" gun.....) Or the other naval artillery

 

My guess is those could be determined by the base caliber of the weapon. Obviously, a 6" is going to shoot farther than a 105mm

 

It makes me wonder if those numbers allow for standard arty (ballistic arcing trajectory -plunging fire-) or a flat direct fire mode

[KJakker 875]

Try cutting the diameter of the projectile to half the gun's real bore size and changing the muzzle velocity to about 1000m/s +- 20m/s.

 

Here are a few that I worked on myself, all naval artillery.

 

 KJakker LR Guns.7z

[LeGrandC 0]

Just guessing here, but have you tried increasing GunRange=  ?

I can't see that halving the bore size or increasing the muzzle velocity to some uber amount is the way to go.

[KJakker 875]

Just guessing here, but have you tried increasing GunRange=  ?

I can't see that halving the bore size or increasing the muzzle velocity to some uber amount is the way to go.

 

Increasing the GunRange= only changes the range at which the AI starts shooting.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Try cutting the diameter of the projectile to half the gun's real bore size and changing the muzzle velocity to about 1000m/s +- 20m/s.

 

Here are a few that I worked on myself, all naval artillery.

 

 KJakker LR Guns.7z

 

That seemed to work with the M109s and D-20s. They appear to be throwing their rounds a LOT further, albeit on a straight trajectory - instead of an arcing one.

[KJakker 875]

That seemed to work with the M109s and D-20s. They appear to be throwing their rounds a LOT further, albeit on a straight trajectory - instead of an arcing one.

 

I don't think the game can use a proper arching trajectory. All guns are just that, guns, in other words direct fire weapons not howitzers or mortars. Also we have the problem on only having one ballistics model in the game.    

[+Stary 2,426]

Also we have the problem on only having one ballistics model in the game.    

that is also unchanged since 2002 or so so still flawed in drag etc

that siad we have sort of working Katyushas, at least I remember observing them firing ages ago, so maybe that would be some way to implement it? Rockets faked into shells instead of basically huge ass bullets?

[Wrench 9,461]

there's also a working SCUD, too. But I can't remember WHERE it went!!

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Huge ass bullets........

 

Ha!

[Icarus999 70]

montecz had a work around: http://combatace.com/topic/45058-hey-i-have-artillery-firing-over-the-horizon/

[jack33 90]

During the rebuilding of my Sf2 mods I decided to try and look into the possibility of solving the reason why in-game artillery never manages to throw rounds further than 2km.

 

img00117.JPG

 

(Take no notice of the extended tracers - I'm using them to better judge the trajectories of the rounds!)

 

I rather suspect it's got something to do with these lines in the _DATA.ini:

 

GroundObjectRole=ARTILLERY

 

RangeFinder=2

BallisticComputer=-0

(the last two lines may have a big factor to play here, if only the correct numbers were known)

 

 Anybody got some advice on how to remedy this little riddle?

Dear friend: what pack of effects, are awesome

[Snailman 517]

Stary you don't reading the SAM topic

 

Here....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Snailman

[Snailman 517]

[+Stary 2,426]

umm yeah I have tons of unread topics sorry!

 

OH.MY!!!! THAT was awesome work Snailman

[Snailman 517]

I need a little more testing and I have to finish the models itself. Special thanks to Spectre for the Ural (and GAZ) chassis.

[+Stary 2,426]

how's it working?

[Snailman 517]

It's a loooong story. 

 

I wanted try if the SAM can hit a ground target. Well it can....  but not much use.  BUT I thought about artillery rockets.

Unguided does not work, because there are no ballictic aiming.  So it has to be guided... and also non-guided.  So they need some guidance... but then they turn into cruise missiles.  And of course, missiles are being launched one by one... no matter if set MissilesInAir=40   they won't launch more till the previous ones are still homing.

I made them inaccurate.... no help. Turn G= 1  means it will not home at all.  So turn G minimum 2.  I tried to make them lose target by setting Homing chance to low... SAM launches when the previous missile fails...

And then CEP=200  but still homing missiles do not have CEP..   Except..... if it has a guidance that does not aim on a target but  the target's position.  I remembered that old cruise missiles had a guidance which was unable to hit moving targets... Inertial. Before SF2NA. And in case inertial, CEP does work.  Important not to give terminal guidance which will turn on an hit the target anyway. This is semi-guidance, so rockets are fine...

No high rate of fire anyway... I remembered warships... so I made it to be a warship. It has 10 gunners, each having 4 missiles. those are fired in 2-3 salvos.  Not bad, but they all fired at the same time... agh

and they move the turret shaking up and down...

Lookaroundchance=0   does not work if the gunner component is attached to the turret... so it needs to be attached to the chassis (base component). 

Rate of fire, and salvo is regulated by MissileLaunchTime= is set 0.5 more for each gunner so they fire in order (more or less).

 

Next problem was visibility.  Gunners see things in the arc which is set in Pitch and Yaw...  But gunners were put into a height of 1000 meters to see.With MinPitch= 0 they dont see anything below.  -> Pitch =-40.  They will never turn the turred down anyway.

Still they seem to be blind for distant targets....  Except... to the front. Gunners see to the front only?  Yes because they are not on the turret. But they must be there..

Long range was still a problem...   Then I realized. VisualRange is two sided.  Unit visibility is a distance they see. but they see only those units which are set to be visible within a distance... it seems to me.

Need radar to see what is too small or too distant to be seem?  Let's try.

Still nothing... ground unit must have a system of radar type, only then it's radar will work.

And that is a radar, so the rules of SAM and aircraft radars apply.  Search range, Search strength, vs units radar cross section.   A tank is 10, so a radar of 40 km and 100 strength can spot that from 40km.  IF RadarMinimumAlt=0....

 

Not bad... huh. 

Known issues are.... since there are 10gunners, and all has been set to turn the turret and the tubes, sometimes they contradict... until all 10 is ready to fire. hehe)  for a moment the rockets do not match the tubes... but otherwise all is fine now.

 

 

Yes, I thought about the Scud as well, but I can't active it's animation.  Fixed launch site has no problem however. I guess everything can be the same.  Easier since it does not fire salvo.

 

I did experiments with guns alike, and I'm sure this way they will be effective. Setting CEP to lower, and there is only one gunner needed. All is possible.

 

Ah and yesterday, that I read about the old experiments here, I added Loft as well,  so the ballistics have better look now. The key is Visibility and Inaccuracy ))

[+Stary 2,426]

and as soon as I finished reading you explanation my head exploded from mere trying to understand...

[Wilches 1,156]

Fantastic! If you could enhance the smoke, twice at least, it should be perfect.

[Snailman 517]

Effects are not my cup of tea, that the stock RocketFireEffect.  SamLaunch would be too strong for that. And would kill frame rate in the process.

 

@Stary - I see the system as a whole, but how to tell... eh.

 

You know the joke...

The Practical Physicist, the Theoretical Physicist and the Mathematician is put into prison. They were given a tin can of food without opener... to see how they survive for two weeks.

The Practical Physicist's cell looks like hell, all messed up. The guy smashed the tin can to the wall till he found out the angle of impact that did crack the bottom of the can.

The Theoretic Physicist's cell was full of formulas on the wall, not a single inch was blank. He calculated the proper angle and speed, to crack the tin can open.

They opened the Mathematician's cell... He starved to death. On the wall, a sentence was written... "Indirect Proof. Assume I have a tin-can opener.."

 

I am the experimenting type... I just keep smashing it, till it works)

[Snailman 517]

Erased it, was quite miserable quality. New one .... IF job allows it.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Snailman