Want some guys in the USA to rename the capital?

[+Gepard 10,239]

Since the iconoclasters try to remove the monuments of south state generals i ask myself where this would end?

The pro monument removement guys say, that the monuments have to go, because the south state generals fought for the continuation of slavery in the south. Okay, this is an argument. But if you arguing in that way, should you not remove all monuments from slave owners too?

George Washington was a slave owner. If i follow the logic of the iconoclasters, then Washington DC and the state of Washington must renamed into something else. The picture of Washington on the $ note must removed. And and and ...

Or have i not understand the whole thing correctly?

Edited August 24, 2017 by Gepard

[+logan4 845]

You know, history is always written by the winners, so everything they say/write must be the truth and just/right and anything else that was "against" then must be deleted with all of its trace and to be made looking bad. They are just catching up a bit late with those steps....

True, slavery is not a nice thing... but I suppose the statues of generals were not erected just because they fought for "slavery". They could have been great leaders on their own and for other aspects as well...

Wonder when they gonna raise up against the modern version of slavery and all those who embrace it... as working 8-16 hours a day 5-6 days a week for pennies to get along till the next paycheck, is nothing else than a form of slavery... called right to work.. but I guess they will be quiet about that as that will not pay their own income..

[+Menrva 3,990]

Nice topic, this should be moved to The Arena, I think.

I agree with you guys. It's totally non-sense. It's like they are trying to erase parts of history. In their messed up point of view, we Europeans should get rid of the remnants of Nazi concentration camps, and so on. Even statues and monuments have a historical meaning. That kind of slavery existed, it's pointless to remove such statues in the attempt of rewriting history. Future generations need to know the past for what it had been.

Anyway, I am not that much informed about American history, so I can't understand the reasons behind such decisions completely. All I see is that the US is getting more and more divided, not in a good way.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Menrva

[Skyviper 1,101]

Edit.

I wrote a very passionate statement but will hold back my words... someone might get offended and I don't need to deal with that right now. But I'm glad this conversation is happening and I look forward to seeing more people weighing in on this matter.

 

I will say this. It's not the symbol but the ideology which is the problem. People can call their groups whatever they like but since their ideals and methods are the same as the rest, then they're no different.

Quote

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.

-Plato

 

 

[JediMaster 451]

I never understood holding losers in such high esteem.

The South was fighting for their homes and their way of life. They had every reason to give it their all.

The North consisted of soldiers who didn't want to be there fighting an enemy they didn't care about to prevent them from leaving. Ever get in a fight with someone because they wanted to leave your party but, even though you didn't like them, you demanded they stay? I didn't think so.

Yet the North won. So, QED the South's war was run by losers and they lost. Maybe if the vast majority of their population wasn't maltreated slaves they would've done better? Doesn't matter, they lost badly. Then they got even by spending the next 150 years whining about how great they were. 

Of course, if they had their way, we'd all be slaves to the Reich or Imperial Japan now, because a split US wouldn't have tipped the balance to win WWII. Or even if it had, it wouldn't have been strong enough to stand up to the USSR, so Stalin would've crushed us.

If only the South had won to preserve the right to enslave, so that we could all be slaves now. Ah, dare to dream...

[Skyviper 1,101]

I think the problem is arrogance and ignorance. People too arrogant to educate themselves on the ideologies behind the symbols they see which leads to their ignorance thus allowing them to become the very the things they hate. Just with a different flag and slogans.  Which if people want to get real nasty and technical about things... let me shut up.

 

[+Gepard 10,239]

For me the word ideology come from idiot. People who follow ideologies are idiots. No matter what kind of ideology. An ideology gives you the strong feeling, that you are allowed to do everything, because you are the "good guy".

To be against an ideology does not mean, that you are right. Perhaps you are only a follower of an other ideology. Also an idiot, but in the other way round.

Scrapping history is the wrong way. Its easy, but wrong. I remember the time after the political change in eastern germany. Monuments were scrapped, streets and even cities were renamed. The postal service was less orientation for month, because they were unable to find the adresses. New ones, old ones. Chaotic! The monument are gone, but the people remembers them.

In the early days of the GDR (east germany) monuments were scrapped or removed too. But some decades later, still in GDR times, before the change, a lot of monuments came back. Bismarck, Friedrich der Große, the heros of the liberation war against Napoleon and so on. From one moment it was clear, that you cant conceal the history of the people. Historical persons are part of our history, wheter we like it or not. It depends, how to deal with it. Pro or contra. Write both on the memorial plate. Thats the right way, i think.

[Skyviper 1,101]

See I never thought about it the way you said it. ... Gepardology! I'm just being silly please forgive me.

But your comment brought up something that I've been wondering about.  You said some of those monuments are coming back. So haw as the past impacted modern day Germany from your perspective? How have people moved on from those dare I say dark days of your country?

[charlielima 328]

Iconolasters huh ?

I believe the activists ( ex occupy, anarchists, anitifa, and what what paid by george soros ) wont be happy until every city in the USA is named after somebody not associated with western civilization.

CL

[+Gepard 10,239]

In my local newspaper i found, that someone in the USA wants to remove a statue of Christopher Columbus and replace it by a statue of the singer Prince.

Really?

[jeanba 1,915]

That's me, because Prince sings better than Christopher Columbus

[+Menrva 3,990]

52 minutes ago, Gepard said:

In my local newspaper i found, that someone in the USA wants to remove a statue of Christopher Columbus and replace it by a statue of the singer Prince.

Really?

I have read about it too. Also read that Italo-Americans in the Big Apple didn't take it too kindly. What a stupid, f*ckin idea.

[+Gepard 10,239]

4 hours ago, Menrva said:

I have read about it too. Also read that Italo-Americans in the Big Apple didn't take it too kindly. What a stupid, f*ckin idea.

And i thought it was a joke.

[+Menrva 3,990]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

And i thought it was a joke.

Well, could always be fake news. In these times, you never know. I hope it's not real, otherwise it means there are serious cases of insanity spreading in the US.

[Derk 265]

O Christ, we have the same ongoing never ending bullshit here. Behind just about every name in our history there is racism, discrimination, colonialism, slavery, surpression and so on. And the colour white is the source of all this . We have a lot of very well integrated coloured people , immigrants, doing their best and succeeding, no real problem with sexual discrimination etc. but there's always a noisy minority whining and

yelping for attention and publicity, discriminating  theirselves in the process....

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Derk

[Snailman 517]

The more I read about "North and South" the more I feel that the North was the "dark side"...  Always, since I learned about these things in school we were told black and white things. Evil and Good I mean. Cliches.. . winners history.  Nothing in history is black and white - or blue and gray in this case)

[Snailman 517]

On 8/25/2017 at 2:16 PM, Menrva said:

I agree with you guys. It's totally non-sense. It's like they are trying to erase parts of history. In their messed up point of view, we Europeans should get rid of the remnants of Nazi concentration camps, and so on. Even statues and monuments have a historical meaning. That kind of slavery existed, it's pointless to remove such statues in the attempt of rewriting history. Future generations need to know the past for what it had been.

Anyway, I am not that much informed about American history, so I can't understand the reasons behind such decisions completely. All I see is that the US is getting more and more divided, not in a good way.

See, that's what it feels when they try to disembowel and forge our history. It's more spectacular because they are doing it to the USA this time.

Reason? Reason for deheroisation (or heroisation on the opposite) is always a rape of history - goal is purely political like always. Incite the people against each other, project pictures of fake enemies (domestic or foreign alike). Distraction, deflection, disorder. Till the pawns kill each other, the king rules.

Slavery?  It is still present. But the chains have been changed to unrepayable loans, puppet governments and brainwash media and Polcorrectness inquisition. This is the 21th Century slavery.

Speaking of the Black, they expropriate slavery claiming exclusive rights on suffering like extremist jews used to privatize the horrors of WW2 as their exclusive "copyright". My own nation have been also subject of "classic" slavery for 150years and passive slavery (subjugating occupation) for another 400 years including deliberate ethnic cleansing massacres. Nah, Political Correctness rules say, the white christian cannot be a victim and bashing the white (or a minor nation) is not racism or discrimination.

[Atreides 144]

On 9/11/2017 at 7:00 AM, Snailman said:

See, that's what it feels when they try to disembowel and forge our history. It's more spectacular because they are doing it to the USA this time.

Reason? Reason for deheroisation (or heroisation on the opposite) is always a rape of history - goal is purely political like always. Incite the people against each other, project pictures of fake enemies (domestic or foreign alike). Distraction, deflection, disorder. Till the pawns kill each other, the king rules.

Slavery?  It is still present. But the chains have been changed to unrepayable loans, puppet governments and brainwash media and Polcorrectness inquisition. This is the 21th Century slavery.

Speaking of the Black, they expropriate slavery claiming exclusive rights on suffering like extremist jews used to privatize the horrors of WW2 as their exclusive "copyright". My own nation have been also subject of "classic" slavery for 150years and passive slavery (subjugating occupation) for another 400 years including deliberate ethnic cleansing massacres. Nah, Political Correctness rules say, the white christian cannot be a victim and bashing the white (or a minor nation) is not racism or discrimination.

Agree with you 100%.  The left loves making it look like people from different cultures and ethinicities are unable to get along in America or even here in Canada, where the Marxist nonsense has reared it's ugly head in Toronto.  Case and point, I'm of Anglo-Indian origin.  My grandad is Hindu Indian and Grandma a Brit (they live in New Delhi, India).  I'm Hindu, my Indian parents named me Aryan, a very traditional Hindu name.  Fast forward to 2017, wish you should see the looks of horror and insults I get from white and non-white leftards for having a Hindu name like Aryan.  Leftards hear Aryan and they turn into screeching, frothing at the mouth idiots calling me a half brown Hindu male a Nazi and some have even "demanded" that I change my name.  They have no idea about the fact that Aryan is from Sanskrit and existed long before Hitler.  In a sense today's leftist have a lot in common with Jihadi's, both despise free speech and are highly explosive when confronted with logic.

Regarding slavery, it exists in another form as well that you, through no fault of your own didn't address.  As someone who lived in the GCC countries of Kuwait and Dubai, THAT'S where modern day slavery exists.  Yet these so called caring, loving leftist liberals don't address that, know why ?  Because being critical of an Islamic countries treatment of it's non-muslim labour force would be Islamaphobic. 

The lefts argument script explained:

1) Look at any issue.
2) Determine if there is an inequality of outcome, or if someone looks like they are worse off than someone else.
3) Blame this inequality on oppressive social constructs, thus polarising the group into smaller units opposed to each other - one declared an "oppressor" and the other "oppressed".
4) Battle it out.
5) Reexamine the situation to find new inequalities.
6) Rinse and repeat.

This is why the left can't unify. They are running on a script which forces them to partition.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Atreides

[JediMaster 451]

Exactly. And the right replies by falsely stating that it was better *insert random date in the past here* even when it can be proven that unless you are referring to white Western males it most likely wasn't.

 

The problem is both sides are wrong in different ways. But those on the left say the right is MORE wrong, and wrong in the ways that count, while their flaws are smaller.

Meanwhile those on the right say the left is more wrong, and is wrong in the ways that count, while their flaws are smaller.

 

Found something that makes my side look bad? Attack the source for credibility, claim it's overblown, it's a conspiracy, it's a distraction from the REAL issues, why are we talking about it instead of X, blah blah blah.

Found something that makes the other side look bad? Attack anyone that attacks it source, claim it's being covered up without adequate attention, decry how it proves how corrupt THEY are, demand it be treated as the greatest threat ever, blah blah blah.

 

The cold truth is that if either the left or the right get their way, society will collapse. Only a balance down the center has made society grow, with balances between soulless capitalism putting children slaves in factories with a rich oligarchy treating the masses as subhuman and mindless socialism where people are actually supposed to work just as hard as everyone else, with no one slacking or overachieving and everyone having the same things as everyone else, in total disregard for actual human behavior and abilities.

 

The idiotic demonizing of the other side so that it seems morally repugnant to compromise (the very foundation of the Constitution that both sides claim to admire, actually) is what is going to destroy this country. Not the right. Not the left. The unwillingness of the two sides to work together and insistence that ONLY they are correct will.

[+Gepard 10,239]

Found this photo.

 

No words.

[Atreides 144]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

Found this photo.

 

No words.

What the actual @#$! ?  I wish there was someone willing to give these idiots Pinochet style helicopter rides, what a stupid attempt at revisionist history.  I suppose America was discovered by Mobutu Magawambe !

[jeanba 1,915]

As a French, I demand reparations from Roma inhabitants because off all the things Rome did to my gallic ancesters in Alesia back in 52 bc !!!!

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by jeanba

[+Menrva 3,990]

12 minutes ago, jeanba said:

As a French, I demand reparations from Roma inhabitants because off all the things Roma did to my gallic ancesters in Alesia back in 52 bc !!!!

 

Haha, no way! Well, thankfully I am not from Rome, LOL!

[Skyviper 1,101]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:56 AM, Atreides said:

What the actual @#$! ?  I wish there was someone willing to give these idiots Pinochet style helicopter rides, what a stupid attempt at revisionist history.  I suppose America was discovered by Mobutu Magawambe !

 

Nah man haven't you been watching the History Channel? Aliens dude ... it was the aliens.

Sorry I couldn't resist. Hopefully you see my point amid the humor.