Heck 496 Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) I don't know if this would be possible, but could an artillery piece be turned into a simple effects emitter? I'll look in the knowledge base to see if there's any information on effects emitters, since effects can be tied to objects, or course. I would need two emitters. The artillery battery emitter, and the artillery barrage emitter, which would have to be timed to work together. If we can't have artillery that can fire beyond line of sight, why couldn't we have the illusion of that? I was flying over Wrench's Korea yesterday, and watching the lighthouses in the distance gave me the idea. Edited November 8, 2017 by Heck 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+VonS 1,421 Posted November 8, 2017 I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, and a good idea for extra "atmosphere" in the sim. I remember a few yrs. ago that Stephen implemented some random explosion effects across no man's land - some of those experiments were carried over into the Italian map if I'm not mistaken, and random explosions can be seen when flying across some sectors of the Italian-Austrian front for example, as if a battle is going on in the trenches. I'll have to re-fly the Italian map one of these days since it's been a while - I'm still stuck in late 1917 as a German pilot in the Palestinian theater, but hope to finish soon with missions there and load up a different map, maybe Italy or the Eastern front for a change. What I'd like to find out is a way to make the trees "solid" in FE2 - similar to how they work in RB3D. Many of the custom airfield objects, such as hangars for example, definitely feel solid when you crash into them and burn, if clumsy while taxiing around the field. Airfield towers, guns, ships, etc., are all solid. Only the trees and observation balloons, and Zeppelins perhaps (will have to double-check those) are hollow. Von S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,421 Posted November 8, 2017 lack of collision meshes on TOD objects, would be my guess. None of them are "really there" on any map in any of the games. as to the lighthouse, I know Stary built the "beam" as a self illuminating tga, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+gterl 1,204 Posted November 8, 2017 don't mix up things - Lighthouse is a LOD with moving parts (like flags and other objects), e.g. programmed into the LOD/3D object - Emitters would be nice and can be done (just an effect without further 'actions' attached to it), e.g. purely visual - Random explosions are not 'random' per se. On the italian map these are two barracks close together with a specific explosion/destruction effect AND inside these two barack objects is a machine-gun firing at the aircraft flying above...the bullets hit the barracks in the first place and destroys them...thus creating an explosion (old IL2 trick) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted November 8, 2017 I was working on this a couple of months ago. I used a destroyed truck .LOD as the main object set as Artillery. I changed the accuracy of the gun so it would fire all over the place at short range to stay within "No-Mans-Land". I placed infantry objects all around certain areas so the new "Artillery" would have something to shoot at. It does work but for some reason only sometimes. I would fly over an area and could see random artillery explosions. The problem is the new artillery object seemed to be firing on the nearest AAA objects. Not the infantry I placed around. And most missions there wouldn't be any action at all. Cant figure out why since the artillery object and infantry are permanently on the map for every mission. Also I removed the gun fire and sound from the new Destroyed Truck .LOD object. So all you hear or see is the secondary explosions. It is very cool to see. looks as if there is a battle down below. I placed several new artillery objects around so there would be a lot more explosions. they never hit anything. Which is good. I have been able to work on it any further. Too busy lately. But it does work. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, quack74 said: I was working on this a couple of months ago. I used a destroyed truck .LOD as the main object set as Artillery. I changed the accuracy of the gun so it would fire all over the place at short range to stay within "No-Mans-Land". I placed infantry objects all around certain areas so the new "Artillery" would have something to shoot at. It does work but for some reason only sometimes. I would fly over an area and could see random artillery explosions. The problem is the new artillery object seemed to be firing on the nearest AAA objects. Not the infantry I placed around. And most missions there wouldn't be any action at all. Cant figure out why since the artillery object and infantry are permanently on the map for every mission. Also I removed the gun fire and sound from the new Destroyed Truck .LOD object. So all you hear or see is the secondary explosions. It is very cool to see. looks as if there is a battle down below. I placed several new artillery objects around so there would be a lot more explosions. they never hit anything. Which is good. I have been able to work on it any further. Too busy lately. But it does work. Hi, Quack. I was thinking of avoiding "real" artillery in this mod. I used real guns and infantry in my ancient Active Battlefield mod. It was a grind to get them all placed to see each other, and when I did they often had all destroyed each other before I got there on a mission. So, I armored them and made them extraordinarily bad shots. They would survive, but that created a new problem. The game tracks every shot, so your event log would wind up two miles long, and full of "77mm dummy fired at Stationary Brit Inf," over and over again. After I finish the ini call outs for Geezer's fortifications, I'm going to try to learn how to do this. I want to create two objects using "borrowed" LODs. One, artillery that can be placed using Mue's editor, and the other, the target, using the destroyed LODs from the original terrains mixed with maybe your smoking craters, which, again, can be placed using Mue's Target Editor. This way we can have the guns a few miles away from what they're shelling. Flying over, you'd be able to see both ends of a medium range barrage. That's the idea I'm going for. The only issue I can foresee using borrowed artillery is that all the models were created as direct line of sight weapons, so their barrels are at a low angle, rather than at a high angle, as if they're firing at targets a few miles away. Still, I think it's better than the empty brown swath we have as a front now. Another idea was to have a sniper emitter, an emitter that would be placed directly on TK's painted trench lines that would give off the flash of a sniper rifle intermittently, which would be one thing you'd see on most days as you flew over the front. On most days, everyone kept their heads down, except for the unlucky few, that's what this emitter would simulate. Edited November 8, 2017 by Heck more thoughts... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 8, 2017 5 hours ago, gterl said: don't mix up things - Lighthouse is a LOD with moving parts (like flags and other objects), e.g. programmed into the LOD/3D object - Emitters would be nice and can be done (just an effect without further 'actions' attached to it), e.g. purely visual - Random explosions are not 'random' per se. On the italian map these are two barracks close together with a specific explosion/destruction effect AND inside these two barack objects is a machine-gun firing at the aircraft flying above...the bullets hit the barracks in the first place and destroys them...thus creating an explosion (old IL2 trick) So, what you're saying is I would need two things to create this illusion of a battery firing. I'd need the guns as an object, and an emitter placed with them to give them the illusion of firing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+VonS 1,421 Posted November 8, 2017 Stimulating thoughts gents' - have now checked a previous post and indeed "TOD objects are non-collidable and there is nothing" Mue can do about it, as he wrote there: Didn't notice those posts until now since they're under the SF2 section. Happy flying, Von S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Stephen1918 1,472 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) I spent quite a while playing with battle fields when I was doing to the Vogesen2 terrain. I was not able build an emitter that would work intermittently. Later, I made some craters that have smoke coming out of them, they work continuously and do add some effects to the battle field. Gterl and Quack have each figured out a solution. I came up with a third option, so you have a choice (maybe you can mix them.) In my experiments, the field guns and infantry would only "see" objects that the game engine places in the terrain. They don't seem to "see" targets placed in the Target.ini. Maybe this is a limit of FE1, I don't know if it's the same in FE2. In Vogesen and Galicia, I was able to place an AA gun behind the lines (theTarget.ini defines a location and the game engine picks a gun and places it) The guns from the target.ini see it and shoot at it. (But they don't see enemy infantry and field guns.) With some experimenting you can find a place where it's too far to get hit, but close enough that the other guns see it. The field has to be pretty flat, if there's a hill between them, or if one side is much higher than the other, they don't shoot. I was able to get some pretty active battle fields (check out Vogesen2 and Galicia2.) You see a lot of tracers, and explosions where the field gun shells hit the ground. I made a rail mounted artillery gun and Geezer made some artillery guns. Those will shoot at a balloon, so they will be elevated when they shoot. Again, you need to experiment with distance and placement of the enemy balloon before the guns will see it, but not be able to hit it. You'll see the guns shooting, but the explosions where the shells hit are quite a distance away and you may not even see them. For Collisions, Wrench is right, the things placed in the tod don't detect a collision. (this includes the trees and most of the city and farm buildings.) This is built into the game engine and can't be changed. Things placed in the Target.ini will detect a collision. In the Types.ini, some objects declare a "CollisionMesh" (which is an LOD.) But not all of them do, so I don't know if you need to have one or if it uses the original mesh unless another one is specified . Edited November 9, 2017 by Stephen1918 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 9, 2017 Yes, Stephen, it was your smoking craters that started me thinking about this in the first place, along with the light emitter from the lighthouses in Korea. My mind often puts disparate things together; it's part of the psychosis. Then again, these juxtaposed things often don't work together, and that's probably the case here, because of the way the game engine works. One odd thing I noticed using Mue's Cat extractor, FE2 seems to contain all the effects from SF, but they may be turned off in FE2. It''ll be interesting to see if they are. Time to break a few eggs. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 9, 2017 You had no idea that the USAS possessed such weapons in 1917. But, yes, SF2 afterburner effects work in FE2. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted November 9, 2017 Dunno if this helps, but Gepard put together a pack of SF1 effects and functions that also work in FE1: I took all files i have modified in First Eagles and put in in this little package. (I hope that i have found all so far.) The only thing you must do is to extract this files in a First Eagles installation. I suggest, that you make a special install for WW2 amd call the new gamefolder "First Eagles WW2". After unzip my files in you FE WW2 installation you must still copy the speechfiles from WoX in the speech folder of FE WW2. The nations.ini which i use is a modified WoE file. I know, that it cause some anomalies in debriefing screen. This has still to be solved. Perhaps i must take an original FE nations ini and modify it. There is something to do. Be aware, this mod is for First Eagles first generation. I have no FE2, thatswhy i cant tell you, wheter it will run with FE2. First Eagles WW2.zip Below is a sample list of control functions that are dormant in FE1. They can be enabled by dropping the listings into a newly created CONTROLS folder, providing working flaps, landing gear, radio, etc. [ControlSet001] EXIT_FLIGHT=ESCAPE QUIT_GAME=ALT+Q PAUSE_FLIGHT=ALT+P TIME_COMPRESSION=ALT+T NORMAL_TIME=ALT+R CHANGE_TIME=ALT+C SKIP_TO_NEXT=ALT+N RADIO_COMM=TAB CHAT_ALL=GRAVE CHAT_ENEMY=SHIFT+GRAVE CHAT_FRIENDLY=CTRL+GRAVE CHAT_TARGET=ALT+GRAVE AUTO_PILOT=A WING_LEVELER=SHIFT+A NEXT_WAYPOINT=W PREV_WAYPOINT=SHIFT+W MAP=M SCREEN_SHOT=PRINTSCREEN DEBUG_TOGGLE=CTRL+H GOTO_COCKPIT_FRONT_VIEW=F1 GOTO_COCKPIT_LEFT_VIEW=F2 GOTO_COCKPIT_RIGHT_VIEW=F3 GOTO_COCKPIT_UP_VIEW=SHIFT+F1 GOTO_VIEW_PADLOCK=F4 TOGGLE_COCKPIT=NUMPADPERIOD SNAP_VIEW_FRONT=NUMPAD8 SNAP_VIEW_FRONT_RIGHT=NUMPAD9 SNAP_VIEW_RIGHT=NUMPAD6 SNAP_VIEW_REAR_RIGHT=NUMPAD3 SNAP_VIEW_REAR_LEFT=NUMPAD1 SNAP_VIEW_LEFT=NUMPAD4 SNAP_VIEW_FRONT_LEFT=NUMPAD7 SNAP_VIEW_UP=NUMPAD5 SNAP_VIEW_DOWN=NUMPAD0 GOTO_VIEW_SHOULDER=F5 GOTO_VIEW_OBJECT_NEXT=F6 GOTO_VIEW_OBJECT_PREV=SHIFT+F6 GOTO_VIEW_GROUND_OBJECT_NEXT=F7 GOTO_VIEW_GROUND_OBJECT_PREV=SHIFT+F7 GOTO_VIEW_TARGET=F8 GOTO_VIEW_PLAYER_TO_TARGET=SHIFT+F8 GOTO_VIEW_TARGET_TO_PLAYER=CTRL+F8 GOTO_VIEW_WEAPON=F9 GOTO_VIEW_PLAYER_TO_WEAPON=SHIFT+F9 GOTO_VIEW_WEAPON_TO_PLAYER=CTRL+F9 GOTO_VIEW_FLYBY=F10 GOTO_VIEW_FLYBY_PREV=SHIFT+F10 GOTO_VIEW_TOWER=F11 GOTO_VIEW_TOWER_PREV=SHIFT+F11 GOTO_VIEW_ACTION_CAM=F12 GOTO_FREE_VIEW=CTRL+F12 CAMERA_PITCH_UP=JOYSTICK01_POV01_UP CAMERA_PITCH_DOWN=JOYSTICK01_POV01_DOWN CAMERA_YAW_RIGHT=JOYSTICK01_POV01_RIGHT CAMERA_YAW_LEFT=JOYSTICK01_POV01_LEFT CAMERA_ZOOM_IN=MOUSE_BUTTON01 CAMERA_ZOOM_OUT=MOUSE_BUTTON02 CAMERA_PITCH_AXIS=MOUSE_Y-AXIS CAMERA_YAW_AXIS=MOUSE_X-AXIS CAMERA_ZOOM_CONTROL= PITCH_UP=DOWNARROW PITCH_DOWN=UPARROW ROLL_RIGHT=RIGHTARROW ROLL_LEFT=LEFTARROW YAW_RIGHT=PERIOD YAW_LEFT=COMMA THROTTLE_UP=EQUALS THROTTLE_DOWN=MINUS THRUST_VECTOR_UP=CTRL+EQUALS THRUST_VECTOR_DOWN=CTRL+MINUS FLAPS_DOWN=F FLAPS_UP=V AIRBRAKES_TOGGLE=S WHEELBRAKES_TOGGLE=B LANDING_GEARS_TOGGLE=G ARRESTER_HOOK_TOGGLE=H CYCLE_NAV_LIGHT=CTRL+L DRAG_CHUTE=CTRL+B EJECT=ALT+B PITCH_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_Y-AXIS YAW_CONTROL= ROLL_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_X-AXIS THROTTLE_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_U-AXIS THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL= NEXT_AA_WEAPONS=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON03 PREV_AA_WEAPONS=SHIFT+BACKSPACE NEXT_AG_WEAPONS=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON04 PREV_AG_WEAPONS=SHIFT+BACKSLASH FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON01 FIRE_SECONDARY_GUN= FIRE_WEAPON=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON02 UNJAM_GUN=SHIFT+JOYSTICK01_BUTTON03 OPEN_BOMBBAY_DOOR=CTRL+O DROP_TANKS=CTRL+D JETTISON_STORES=CTRL+J NEXT_RIPPLE_QUANTITY=RBRACKET PREV_RIPPLE_QUANTITY=SHIFT+RBRACKET NEXT_RIPPLE_INTERVAL=LBRACKET PREV_RIPPLE_INTERVAL=SHIFT+LBRACKET NEXT_HUD_MODE=APOSTROPHE PREV_HUD_MODE=SHIFT+APOSTROPHE NEXT_GUNGROUP=SEMICOLON PREV_GUNGROUP=SHIFT+SEMICOLON CHAFF=C FLARE=X ECM_TOGGLE=Z TOGGLE_RADAR=CTRL+PGUP NEXT_RADAR_MODE=PGUP PREV_RADAR_MODE=SHIFT+PGUP NEXT_RADAR_RANGE=PGDN PREV_RADAR_RANGE=SHIFT+PGDN SELECT_NEXT_RADAR_TARGET=HOME SELECT_PREV_RADAR_TARGET=SHIFT+HOME ACQUIRE_RADAR_TARGET=INSERT ACQUIRE_VISUAL_TARGET_ON_RADAR=SHIFT+INSERT REJECT_RADAR_TARGET=DELETE SELECT_CLOSEST_CENTER=NUMPADSTAR SELECT_TARGET=T SELECT_PREV_TARGET=SHIFT+T SELECT_CLOSEST_TARGET=CTRL+T SELECT_FRIENDLY=Y SELECT_PREV_FRIENDLY=SHIFT+Y SELECT_CLOSEST_FRIENDLY=CTRL+Y SELECT_GROUND=E SELECT_PREV_GROUND=SHIFT+E SELECT_CLOSEST_GROUND=CTRL+E SELECT_LAST_RADIO=R SELECT_LAST_RADIO_CALLER=SHIFT+R SELECT_RADAR_TARGET=CTRL+R SELECT_WAYPOINT=CTRL+W DESELECT_TARGET= ANIMATION_1= ANIMATION_2= ANIMATION_3= ANIMATION_4= ANIMATION_5= ANIMATION_6= ANIMATION_7= ANIMATION_8= ANIMATION_9= ANIMATION_10= [ControlSet002] FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN=SPACE FIRE_WEAPON=RETURN [RangedControl001] AxisControl=PITCH_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=TRUE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=2.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=PITCH_DOWN DecreaseControl=PITCH_UP CenterControl= [RangedControl002] AxisControl=YAW_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=2.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=YAW_RIGHT DecreaseControl=YAW_LEFT CenterControl= [RangedControl003] AxisControl=ROLL_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=2.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=ROLL_RIGHT DecreaseControl=ROLL_LEFT CenterControl= [RangedControl004] AxisControl=THROTTLE_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=0.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=TRUE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=0.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=THROTTLE_UP DecreaseControl=THROTTLE_DOWN CenterControl= [RangedControl005] AxisControl=CAMERA_PITCH_AXIS MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE MouseScale=0.200000 UseMouseRate=TRUE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=FALSE SelfCenterRate=50.000000 KeyControlRate=2.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=CAMERA_PITCH_DOWN DecreaseControl=CAMERA_PITCH_UP CenterControl= [RangedControl006] AxisControl=CAMERA_YAW_AXIS MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE MouseScale=0.250000 UseMouseRate=TRUE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=FALSE SelfCenterRate=50.000000 KeyControlRate=2.500000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=CAMERA_YAW_RIGHT DecreaseControl=CAMERA_YAW_LEFT CenterControl= [RangedControl007] AxisControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=-1000.000000 DeadZone=0.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=FALSE SelfCenterRate=100.000000 KeyControlRate=5.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_IN DecreaseControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_OUT CenterControl= [RangedControl008] AxisControl=THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=0.000000 DeadZone=10.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=TRUE MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=0.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_UP DecreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_DOWN CenterControl= 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Here is what my "ghost" artillery looks like. Lots of explosions without the gun fire effects and gun fire sounds. only the explosions and dirt spikes. Edited November 13, 2017 by quack74 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted November 13, 2017 Quack74: Your effects look great. In the real world, artillery is often so distant that muzzle flashes cannot be seen except at high altitude. In terms of realistic ambience, you are definitely on the right track! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 17, 2017 Quack, that is exactly one of the effects I am talking about. Perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted November 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Heck said: Quack, that is exactly one of the effects I am talking about. Perfect. Yes! Also, Stephen1918 developed some nice ambience effects with his smoking craters. Perhaps Steve's and Quack's stuff can be combined? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted November 17, 2017 Here is one more Vid. Sometimes the effect doesn't show. I'm still testing and trying to figure out when it shows and why. but when it shows its a very cool realistic feel when flying over the front. I can place the "ghost artillery all over the front. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted November 17, 2017 I have destroyed buildings in the distance that have small fires and smoke also. I scattered them all around the front as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) If you guys are able to develop these bits and pieces into a comprehensive "ambience" mod, I am willing to make some ground objects to go with it. For example, heavy artillery has not been modeled much - most guns are in the field artillery class. Heavy artillery would be so far back from the trenches that there would be no visual conflict with distant explosions in no man's land. Also, they would add to the list of targets - either emplaced or in transport. Edited November 17, 2017 by Geezer 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heck 496 Posted November 17, 2017 Couldn't you make them as terrain pieces and misc target types? Quack's smoking craters are going into all my installs as soon as possible, even if they act only at random. I'm a dummy to have missed them. Sorry, Quack. Like I wondered in my original question, if Geezer created these guns to have a fixed high elevation, could they be placed as terrain objects, not ground objects, using Mue's editor, and be assigned an effects emitter at the barrel for a flash and smoke? Even if they worked only at random, like Quack's smoking craters, it would be cool. Some batteries would be firing, some not. Seems like it could be cool, if it could be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted November 17, 2017 I suggest you guys experiment with existing guns, craters, buildings, etc. If you come up with something that looks good, then I'll make some new 3D models - either as ground objects or terrain objects. So long as they are static, not dynamic, it makes no difference to me. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
