I have problem with Stephen's Farman HF20 Unarmed

[Sky High 166]

I just today got around to flying Stephen's lovely Farman HF20 from last year. Bizarrely, when I arrive in the 3d, there are two identical planes doubled almost one on top of the other, moving in and out towards and from one another. Has anyone any ideas what I've cocked up? [Funnily enough, the same happens with some of Bortafarms' old Farmans, as well].

[+VonS 1,421]

Possibly an error with the cockpit folder? I doubt it is FM related although I have removed a redundant CL0MachTableData entry for the left stab on the HF.20 and unarmed variant. Will post the files with a v. 9.7 fm pack or maybe separately for now.

Have also tweaked further the fms for the Longhorn and Shorthorn, slightly better climb now and greater difficulty diving at speeds above about 180kph, as historical. Will follow up with more info., still testing and removing the old blocky gunner as per Trotsky's comments in the other thread.

Von S 

[Sky High 166]

Thanks for the prompt reply. What cockpit folder error might cause this?

[+Trotski 832]

oh thank you thank you THANK YOU !!!!........remove the offending gunner , it was making my eyeballs bleed . so more revisions on the way, to make the aircraft even more horrible to fly ? brilliant, love it !! makes you appreciate what the real pilots had to handle, and with cruddy weather chucked in.....oh my life !! Yeah no wonder life expectancy was so low..........

[+VonS 1,421]

2 hours ago, Sky High said:

Thanks for the prompt reply. What cockpit folder error might cause this?

Could be a variety of things...mismatch between the cockpit. ini file and cockpit folder contents, or files thrown into the cockpit folder from different sub-variants of the same aircraft...happens to me on occasion if I'm not careful with my multiple FE2 installs. Have PM-ed you the cockpit.ini file and cockpit folder that I use with Stephen's HF.20 - perhaps it will solve the problem.

Happy flying,

Von S

[+VonS 1,421]

1 hour ago, trotski00 said:

oh thank you thank you THANK YOU !!!!........remove the offending gunner , it was making my eyeballs bleed . so more revisions on the way, to make the aircraft even more horrible to fly ? brilliant, love it !! makes you appreciate what the real pilots had to handle, and with cruddy weather chucked in.....oh my life !! Yeah no wonder life expectancy was so low..........

Offending gunner successfully removed from the F.11c model by Bort. (Thank you Stephen and Trotsky for tips for this, from the other thread.) Have also renamed the regular Farman 11 (Shorthorn) lod/out files and swapped them into the 11c folder, for good measure, and the trick works well as visible in one of the pics below...will upload these data inis in a few days after some more testing. The AI handles them nicely...the Longhorn takes off in the mid 70s kph, the Shorthorn in the mid 80s. Top speeds are mid-90s for the Longhorn, about 105 kph for the Shorthorn...climb rates are slightly improved from the previous data inis. The early Farmans, while slow, could lift weight/passengers quite well. Other pic. is of the Longhorn nicely handled by the AI. The types do well to about 2500 m alt., possibly a bit higher, although their theoretical ceiling is pegged around 3600 to 4000 m in the data inis. At any rate I'd sooner take them or one of the Morane Parasol types into an early conflict than the abysmally performing MS type G...the type H is not much better but at least it has a better climb rate than the type G.

Von S

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by VonS
Fixed typos.

[+Trotski 832]

Yes its nice to see these really early types being put to use,  may have to do some skin jobs now, although the idea about new nacelles is one to be borne in mind , asfor the Parasols, not flown them much myself so I am now intrigued to see how dreadful they are, I'm a sucker for lost causes and bad ideas !!!  Talking of skin jobs, the glaringly obvious problem with these Farmans is the wings can only be one colour, which is ok for the Fabric CDL ones but if I wanted to do some of the RNAS/RFC types, they seem to be two tone upper and lower colours.

Edited November 22, 2018 by trotski00

[Sky High 166]

12 hours ago, VonS said:

Could be a variety of things...mismatch between the cockpit. ini file and cockpit folder contents, or files thrown into the cockpit folder from different sub-variants of the same aircraft...happens to me on occasion if I'm not careful with my multiple FE2 installs. Have PM-ed you the cockpit.ini file and cockpit folder that I use with Stephen's HF.20 - perhaps it will solve the problem.

Happy flying,

Von S

Thank you very much.

[Sky High 166]

Update. Problem still remains. Noticeable in both internal and external views.

[+VonS 1,421]

5 hours ago, Sky High said:

Update. Problem still remains. Noticeable in both internal and external views.

I would then recommend a re-download of Stephen's HF.20 and a re-install, to double-check that the anomaly is not there with a fresh install of the aircraft. This will help to figure out if the problem is with the HF.20 files or perhaps some other file in your FE2 install. Let us know of your progress. Hopefully we'll figure something out.

Von S

[Sky High 166]

Further update:

The phenomenon does not occur when I start on the ground, only in the airstarts I had been doing-there's quite a bit of logic to that, isn't there!? Thanks again for all your help, VonS.

[+Stephen1918 1,472]

Somewhere in FE (I don't remember where) there's a section of an ini file that has controls for formations - how far apart the planes are, etc. Could that have been  changed by accident?

[+VonS 1,421]

1 hour ago, Stephen1918 said:

Somewhere in FE (I don't remember where) there's a section of an ini file that has controls for formations - how far apart the planes are, etc. Could that have been  changed by accident?

An excellent idea - the formation.ini file should be located in the Flight folder of the FE2 user directory. It's worth checking into. Below are the entries I usually use for mid-war congestion (from my ver. 9.5 FM update pack). Worth toggling are the formation styles under the fighter and bomber entries, to see if it improves results when starting missions in-air.

Von S

-----

[FormationType001]
Name=Fighter
BaseLevel=2
Level[01].Name=Squadron
Level[01].Size=3
Level[01].Formation[01]=Squadron_LeftEchelon     <----- try replacing this one with another type of formation
Level[01].Formation[02]=Squadron_RightEchelon
Level[01].Formation[03]=Squadron_Trail
Level[01].Formation[04]=Squadron_Wall
Level[02].Name=Flight
Level[02].Size=2
Level[02].Formation[01]=Flight_LeftEchelon
Level[02].Formation[02]=Flight_RightEchelon
Level[02].Formation[03]=Flight_Trail
Level[02].Formation[04]=Flight_Wall
Level[03].Name=Element
Level[03].Size=2

[FormationType002]
Name=Bomber
BaseLevel=2
Level[01].Name=Squadron
Level[01].Size=3
Level[01].Formation[01]=Squadron_Javelin     <----- also try replacing this one with something else
Level[02].Name=Flight
Level[02].Size=2
Level[02].Formation[01]=Flight_Vee

Edited November 22, 2018 by VonS
Fixed typo.

[Sky High 166]

Thanks, gentlemen. The formations are the source of my problem, I would think. However, since you have been so diligent and historical in compiling these formations, VonS, I hesitate to alter them and will make a point of starting on the ground with these Farmans. 

[+Trotski 832]

Personally speaking, I always have my default setting to start on runway,  dont see the point of starting mid flight , kind of defeats the object of the sim somewhat ( in my opinion , not everyone elses mind you ) the only time I would see the benefit of starting in the air is if you are doing a quick mission/dogfight , and if you just want to fur ball and not fly..........but I'm an opinionated git so sorry to stick my oar in lol.

[Sky High 166]

35 minutes ago, trotski00 said:

Personally speaking, I always have my default setting to start on runway,  dont see the point of starting mid flight , kind of defeats the object of the sim somewhat ( in my opinion , not everyone elses mind you ) the only time I would see the benefit of starting in the air is if you are doing a quick mission/dogfight , and if you just want to fur ball and not fly..........but I'm an opinionated git so sorry to stick my oar in lol.

You're quite right. Air-starts are for when one is in a hurry for a quick dogfight and I'll not be doing too many of those in the Farmans.

[+Trotski 832]

lol...yes Farmans Taubes and early birds are more of a hurry up and wait kind of deal lol lol lol ............otherwise known as ( taps observer on the shoulder ) "I say old chap, would you be so awfully good as to awaken me , once we reach 1500 feet, theres a stout fellah"