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Menrva

Campaign Idea - SF2: North Pacific

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I wanted to find a bigger use for the terrain I am making, and then this idea has come up. The USS Carl Vinson should have been around the Hawaii area by that time in RL. I imagine that a USMC unit from Hawaii gets forward deployed to the Midway Atoll to combat Soviet presence around Kure Atoll, which has gone dark since its LORAN station has been abandoned in the 70s. The campaign will pit the incoming USS Carl Vinson Carrier Group against the Novorossiysk and the Minsk Carrier Groups (the latter gets dispatched at a later time). I am having a bit of trouble in finding more info about the Soviet Pacific Fleet escorts and air squadrons. The USN units I chose should be correct for the period. There are still issues as the campaign is not balanced yet and Off Map Airbase air units don't seem to show up (though off map airbases work in single missions). More storyline details in the image below (little references to Ace Combat 5 for the few, good players who know it).

If someone can help with more info about the Soviet Pacific Fleet, air units etc., I'd appreciate.

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img00006.thumb.JPG.20fdaa9d4a8617707389bb9bd1435b86.JPG

 

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Edited by Menrva
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9 minutes ago, Stratos said:

MMMH, Phantoms and Tomcats against Yak-38 doesn't seem like a fair match.

There are MiG-23MLs and others which should spawn at off map airbases, I implied it in the first post.

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I saw this infographic and thought it might be a useful start, but the website it came from has a serious amount of pop-ups aggressively asking for money, so I just copied the graphic. I'll keep looking, as the premise is intriguing, and finding detailed data is (so far) proving to be interesting.

image.thumb.png.1676f06f9e3179002d46bef513438911.png

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Don't get me wrong, I will love to fly such missions, but what airbase can put the very short legged MiG-23 in range of Midway? Can't you base some planes on Kure?

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57 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Don't get me wrong, I will love to fly such missions, but what airbase can put the very short legged MiG-23 in range of Midway? Can't you base some planes on Kure?

No, you're right about the MiG-23s. I don't see how I can base them at the small Kure Atoll Airfield though, they would have to reach it first and the problem remains. Hence I am asking for more probable air units to add, apart from the usual long range bombers. I would like to know if there were MiG-31s in the Pacific area at the time. At least those are capable of in-flight refueling.

Edited by Menrva

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The Sovs downed the KAL 007 in September 83, and the F-15 protecting the search forces had radar contact with MiG-31 from Kamchatka bases.

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16 minutes ago, Crusader said:

The Sovs downed the KAL 007 in September 83, and the F-15 protecting the search forces had radar contact with MiG-31 from Kamchatka bases.

Thanks. I can't seem to find which unit the MiG-31s came from. For instance, Wiki says that 865 IAP based at Yelizovo was equipped with MiG-31s only from 1985. But Wikipedia can't be trusted on such matters.

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Will this help?

Current fleet

Major active surface combatants of the Russian Pacific Fleet
# Type Name Class Year
011 Cruiser Varyag Slava 1989
543 Destroyer Marshal Shaposhnikov Udaloy I 1985
564 Destroyer Admiral Tributs Udaloy I 1985
572 Destroyer Admiral Vinogradov Udaloy I 1988
548 Destroyer Admiral Panteleyev Udaloy I 1991
715 Destroyer Bystryy Sovremennyy 1989
715 Corvette Sovershennyy Steregushchy 2017
Active Submarines of the Russian Pacific Fleet
# Type Name Class Year
K-551 SSBN Vladimir Monomakh Borey 2014
K-550 SSBN Aleksandr Nevskiy Borey 2013
K-44 SSBN Ryazan Delta III 1982
K-150 SSGN Tomsk Oscar II 1991
K-456 SSGN Tver Oscar II 1991
K-442 SSGN Chelyabinsk Oscar II 1990
K-132 SSGN Irkutsk Oscar II 1988
K-186 SSGN Omsk Oscar II 1993
K-331 SSN Magadan Akula I 1990
K-419 SSN Kuzbass Akula I 1992
K-391 SSN Bratsk Akula I 1987
K-295 SSN Samara Akula II 1995
B-445 SSK Svyatoy Nikolay Chudotvorets Kilo 1988
B-464 SSK Ust'-Kamchatsk Kilo 1990
B-494 SSK Ust'-Bolsheretsk Kilo 1990
B-187 SSK Komsomolsk-na-Amure Kilo 1991
B-190 SSK Krasnokamensk Kilo 1993
B-345 SSK Mogocha Kilo 1994
 

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Pacific_Fleet_(Russia)

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6 hours ago, Stratos said:

MMMH, Phantoms and Tomcats against Yak-38 doesn't seem like a fair match.

And whose fault is this? :biggrin: Guess -  things could look different if the Soviet Union would develop their aircraft carriers/fleet arm more.. .

 

 

 

 

Edited by yakarov79
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2 hours ago, Crusader said:

The Sovs downed the KAL 007 in September 83, and the F-15 protecting the search forces had radar contact with MiG-31 from Kamchatka bases.

 

1 hour ago, Menrva said:
2 hours ago, Crusader said:

The Sovs downed the KAL 007 in September 83, and the F-15 protecting the search forces had radar contact with MiG-31 from Kamchatka bases.

Thanks. I can't seem to find which unit the MiG-31s came from. For instance, Wiki says that 865 IAP based at Yelizovo was equipped with MiG-31s only from 1985. But Wikipedia can't be trusted on such matters.

Su-15 instead ?  

865th IAP. 

Edited by yakarov79

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From "Wings of Fury" by Robert K. Wilcox

Sov Fighter bases on Sakhalin Is. ( not Kamchatka... mem fail :blink: )

Smirnykh (center)

Dolinsk-Sokol (southern end)

On the mainland at Vladivostok

Main fighter types were MiG-23, and also MiG-21

"MiG-31, recently introduced to Russian units... made the Vladivostok run... at 2.3 Mach at 65.000 feet... carrying missiles"

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Thank you guys, I'll have a look at everything. I didn't post details about the terrain, but some of the already mentioned airbases were added as Off Map ones, as in SF2NA Iceland. I could use some help from a campaign guru; Off Map Airbase aircraft do not spawn at all, but everything looks like the regular SF2NA campaign.

1 hour ago, yakarov79 said:

Su-15 instead ?  

865th IAP. 

That's correct. I doubt the Reds would send Su-15s towards the Midway Atoll. Like the MiG-23s, they can't make it, no in-flight refueling. Some MiG-25s could refuel in-flight, but the MiG-31 was the real deal.

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4 hours ago, Menrva said:

I had checked that page before. It doesn't help much, because you can see that most of the listed units were introduced later than 1983. Thank you for the effort, though.

Here are some links that might help...

 

http://russianships.info/eng/

 

You'll have to go through the list manually, but it lists everything from patrol boats to boomers (and everything in between), complete with records of what fleet they were assigned to. In your case, you need Pacific Fleet units (many ships were transferred between fleets.

 

Also, try this one...

http://ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm

The OOB information this site offers makes even my head spin. It has a Pacific Fleet OOB, but this is from 1988, so you'll need to do some digging.

 

Is there anything specific you need to know (battlegroup composition, basing, etc.)? I can look that up immediately.

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Red Banner Pacific Fleet Order of Battle, September 1983

 

The Red Banner Pacific Fleet (henceforth referred to as "Pacific Fleet") was under the command of Fleet Admiral Vladimir Vasilevich Sidorov. It was headquartered at Vladivostok, Primorsky Kray, and composed of the following units: 

 

10th Operational Squadron,  commanded by Vice-Admiral Rostislav Leonidovich Dymo and based out of Abrek Bay (Fokino), Primorsky Kray. The 10th consisted of:

 

Sverdlov-class cruisers Admiral Senyavin and Dimitry Pozharskiy

 

175th Missile Ship Brigade (Kotlin-class destroyers Besslednyy and Vdokhnovennyy, Kynda-class cruisers Varyag and Admiral Fokin, Kresta I-class frigate Sevastopol, and Kara-class anti-submarine cruisers Petropavlovsk, Tallin, and Tashkent.)

 

201st Anti-Submarine Warfare Brigade  (Kotlin-class destroyers Burlivyy and Vyzyvayushschyy, Kanin-class destroyer Gordyy, Kashin-class destroyers Sposobnyy, Steregushschyy, Strogiy, and Odarennyy, Krivak I-class frigates Poryvistyy and Razyashschyy, Krivak II-class frigate Gordelivyy, Kresta I-class frigate Sevastopol, Kresta II-class frigates Admiral Oktyabrskiy, Vasiliy Chapaev, and Marshal Voroshilov, and Kiev-class aircraft carriers Novorossiysk and Minsk.)

 

Continued on next post...

 

 

Edited by Pensy101
Unfinished

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Primorskiy Flotilla, commander unknown, composed of the following units:

 

165th Missile Ship Brigade, based out of Uliss Bay (Vladivostok), Primorsky Kray (Tarantul I-class missile boat R-42 and Nanuchka I-class missile boats Musson, Tayfun, Tsiklon, and Vikhr)

 

202nd Anti-Submarine Warfare Brigade, based out of Abrek Bay (Fokino), Primorsky Kray (Petya-class patrol boats SKR-78, SKR-43, SKR-3, SKR-128, SKR-23, and SKR-15, and T58-class minesweepers Primorskiy Komsomolets, Pavlin Vinogradov, Timofey Ulyantsev, and SKR-137.)

 

47th Coastal Defence Brigade, based out of Paris Bay, Russkiy Island, Primorsky Kray (Poti-class patrol boats MPK-107, MPK-114, MPK-134 and Grisha I-class patrol boats MPK-36, MPK-41, MPK-81, and MPK-117.)

 

45th Costal Defence Brigade, based out of Severnaya Bay (Vladimir), Primorsky Kray (Riga-class patrol boats Pingvin, Gepard, SKR-54, and Irkutskiy Komsomolets)

 

Continued on next post...

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Sakhalin Flotilla, commander unknown, composed of the following units:

 

193rd Anti-Submarine Warfare Brigade, based out of Zavety Ilicha (Sovetskaya Gavan), Khabarovsk Kray (Kotlin-class destroyers Veskiy, Blestyashschyy, Skrytnyy, and Vyderzhannyy, Kanin-class destroyers Upornyy and Gnevnyy, Sverdlov-class cruiser Aleksandr Suvorov, and Krivak II-class frigates Grozyashschyy, Revnostnyy, and Ryanyy)

 

33rd Coastal Defence Brigade, based out of Aniva Bay (Korsakov), Sakhalin Oblast (Grisha I-class patrol boats MPK-4, MPK-37, Zaporoshskiy Komsomolets, and MPK-155)

 

137th Coastal Defence Brigade, based out of Broutona Bay, Simushir Island, Sakhalin Oblast (Petya-class patrol boats SKR-18, SKR-92, SKR-36, and SKR-46)

 

196th Coastal Defence Brigade, based out of Postovaya Bay (Sovetskaya Gavan), Khabarovsk Kray (Riga-class patrol boats SKR-4, SKR-75, SKR-74, SKR-10, and SKR-61, and Petya-class patrol boats SKR-11, SKR-46, and SKR-135.)

 

 

Continued on next post...

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Kamchatka Flotilla, commander unknown, composed of the following units:

 

173rd Anti-Submarine Warfare Brigade, based out of Ilicheva Bay (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatka), Kamchatka Oblast (Riga-class patrol boats Lun, SKR-50, SKR-55, and SKR-59, Kotlin-class destroyers Vozmushshschennyy, Vliyatelnyy, and Vozbuzhdennyy, Krivak I-class frigates Letuchiy, Retivyy, Razumnyy, and Storozhevoy,  and Krivak II-class Rezkiy.)

 

114th Coastal Defence Brigade, based out of Avacha Bay (Zavoyko), Kamchatka Oblast (Poti-class patrol boats MPK-1, MPK-17, MPK-111, MPK-112, MPK-136, and MPK-169, and Grisha I-class patrol boats MPK-122, MPK-143, MPK-145, and MPK-170)

 

Continued on next post...

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Naval Infantry

 

The Pacific Fleet's Naval Infantry compliment was the 55th Naval Infantry Division, based out of Vladivostok and comprised of the following units:

 

  • HQ
  • 106th Naval Infantry Regiment
  • 165th Naval Infantry (Air Landing) Regiment
  • 390th Naval Infantry Regiment (based at Slavyanka, Primorskiy Kray)
  • 150th Tank Regiment
  • 921st Artillery Regiment  (based at Slavyanka, Primorskiy Kray)
  • 923rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment
  • 263rd independent Reconnaissance Battalion
  • 509th independent Engineering Battalion
  • 1484th independent Communications Battalion
  • 240th independent Equipment Maintenance and Recovery Battalion
  • 398th independent Material Supply Battalion
  • 316th independent Medical Company
  • 5th independent Chemical Defence Company

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Air Units

 

The Pacific Fleet's aerial component was under the command of the Department of Naval Aviation, Pacific Fleet, and comprised of the following units:

 

25th Maritime Missile Aviation Division, based at Knevichi, Primorskiy Kray and comprised of the following sub-units:

  • 341st Maritime Missile Aviation Squadron, based at Khorol, Primorskiy Kray  (Tu-16K-10-26)
  • 183rd Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment, based at Knevichi, Primorskiy Kray (Tu-16K and Tu-16 ELINT variants)
  • 169th Guards Mixed Aviation Regiment, based at Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam (Tu-16K, Tu-16Z tanker, Tu-95R, and Tu-142M)

 

143rd Red Banner Maritime Missile Aviation Division, based at Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray and comprised of the following sub-units:

  • 568th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment, based at Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray (Tu-16K, Tu-16Z tanker, Tu-16 ELINT variants, Tu-22M2)
  • 570th Maritime Missile Aviation Regiment, based at Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray (Tu-16K, Tu-16 ELINT variants, Tu-22M2)

 

173rd Independent Maritime Assault Aviation Regiment, based at Pristan, Primorskiy Kray (Su-17M and Su-17UM)

 

311th Independent Shipborne Assault Aviation Regiment, based at Pristan, Primorskiy Kray (Yak-38, MiG-21UM)

 

304th Independent Guards Long-Range Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment, based at Khorol, Primorskiy Kray (Tu-95R)

 

77th Independent Long-Range Anti-Submarine Aviation Regiment, based at Nikolaevka, Primorskiy Kray (Il-38)

 

289th Independent Anti-Submarine Aviation Regiment, based at Nikolaevka, Primorskiy Kray (Be-12)

 

310th Independent Long-Range Anti-Submarine Aviation Regiment, based at Mongokhto (Alekseyevka), Khabarovsk Kray (Tu-142M)

 

710th Independent Shipborne Anti-Submarine Helicopter Regiment, based at Novonezhino, Primorskiy Kray (Ka-25, Mi-14, Ka-27)

 

51st Independent Anti-Submarine Helicopter Squadron, based at Novonezhino, Primorskiy Kray (Mi-14, Mi-8)

 

55th Independent Anti-Submarine Helicopter Squadron, based at Korsakov, Sakhalin Oblast (Mi-14, Mi-8)

 

317th Independent Mixed Aviation Regiment, based at Elizovo, Kamchatka Kray (Ka-25, Tu-16R, Be-12)

 

593rd Independent Transport Aviation Regiment, based at Knevichi, Primorskiy Kray (Tu-104, An-12)

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Disclaimer

I left out most of the support vessels, as well as all submarine units. This is to keep this list to a reasonable length and provide information that is relevant specifically to Cold War Pacific air campaigns (this is Strike Fighters 2, not Cold Waters.) For further information, go to http://ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm

 

Conclusion

I hope this provides a good outline of the major combat units (excluding submarines; see disclaimer) of the Soviet Pacific Fleet circa 1983. As a side note, this information would be useful not only for this proposed Midway campaign, but also for a Kamchatka or Bering-Strait-themed SF2NA campaign using the respective terrains posted by other modders. Let me go on record saying that a Kamchatka-based campaign in the vein of the SF2NA North Cape Pack's Kola Strike campaign (itself a remastered version of the campaign of the same name from Fleet Defender) would be something that I personally would very much like to see. I trust that my work here will be of great utility to both this and future modding endeavors. As for Menrva, if you have any further questions of me, please post them on this thread or PM me.

 

All information listed herein is taken from Michael Holm's website at http://ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm, and all credit is due him for compiling this information. My thanks to him for doing the legwork to find out all these minutiae.

 

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10 hours ago, Pensy101 said:

Is there anything specific you need to know (battlegroup composition, basing, etc.)? I can look that up immediately.

@Pensy101 Thank you very much for posting such links! Michael Holm's website is a gold mine! :good:

If you can, I'd really like to know the composition of the carrier groups for the two carriers, Minsk and Novorossiysk, as well as their air units. I suspect that only one of them had Yak-38s, the other carrier carrying helicopters only.

EDIT: My bad, I missed this bit of info you posted:

"201st Anti-Submarine Warfare Brigade  (Kotlin-class destroyers Burlivyy and Vyzyvayushschyy, Kanin-class destroyer Gordyy, Kashin-class destroyers Sposobnyy, Steregushschyy, Strogiy, and Odarennyy, Krivak I-class frigates Poryvistyy and Razyashschyy, Krivak II-class frigate Gordelivyy, Kresta I-class frigate Sevastopol, Kresta II-class frigates Admiral Oktyabrskiy, Vasiliy Chapaev, and Marshal Voroshilov, and Kiev-class aircraft carriers Novorossiysk and Minsk.)"

Still, I read somewhere that the Minsk had Yak-38s from the 311th Independent Shipborne Assault Aviation Regiment, but no idea about the Novorossiysk

 

Edited by Menrva

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Kiev, Minsk, Novorossiysk, Admiral Gorschkov

With the 4 Kiev, we start one of the bravery pieces of the Soviet Navy, symbolic of its specificity and its ability to be present on all seas, a good rival of the US Navy. The Kiev, Minsk, Novorossiysk and Admiral Gorshkov, launched in 1972, 75, 78 and 1982, and completed in 1975, 78, 82 and 87 were defined as “guardians” of the Delta-type SNLEs, departing on mission from the bases of the Northern (Arctic) Fleet, guaranteeing the destruction of NATO ASM assets against them in case of conflict. They, like the Moskva, had to operate a number of helicopters, and also use the interceptors and their own powerful weapons to destroy allied patrol boats (Breguet Atlantic Type, Lockheed P3 Orion, or Bae Nimrod).

Unlike American aircraft carriers, these Soviet ships are not pure cruisers, nor are they authentic aircraft carriers, but hybrids. Aircraft require, their flight deck is differentiated from the Moskva by being lateral, the superstructure spreading along its length. The entire front of the hull, on the other hand, is that of a cruiser, with a complete panoply to meet all needs: long-range antiswile missiles, medium and short range antiaircraft, torpedo tubes, AA and AM guns, and 3 rocket launchers ASM, with 31 additional devices including 12 Yak and 18/19 Kamov “Hormone”. The latter can deploy light anti-ship missiles and tactical nuclear ASM grenades against ANS.

These impressive buildings, however, were handicapped by too low a load of poor quality interceptors. The Yak-38 “Forger” (NATO code), were in the opinion of all the experts, and the Soviets themselves (the pilots among others), the pale copies of the British Harriers, devoid of surface radar, slow, unmanageable, with a very limited load bearing, low range, and controllable nozzle operation controversial: There were probably accidents never officially revealed, but the “Forger” quickly gained a reputation for flying dangerous. In 1991, the two remaining in service were simply scrapped. Their replacements, the Yak-141 “Freehand”, supersonic and with better characteristics were then phase of tests when the Soviet Union knew its budgetary cuts budget. The Yak 141 was never operational and sank into oblivion.

Kiev prow

The 4 Kiev were still in service in 1992, but both of the Pacific Fleet have been stranded since their respective propeller accidents in 1994 due to lack of funds for repairs, and both of the Northern Fleet suffered a small fate. enviable: In order to keep the Gorshkov in service, we cannibalisa Kiev, docked now, disarmed and serving as a reserve of parts. The Gorshkov is currently the only one active, but often at dockside for lack of funds for its maintenance. When in Kiev, its general state is closer to that of a wreck. The current Russian navy has given priority to Tbilisi.

Kiev class carrier/cruisers

Specifications

Displacement: 36 000t, 42 000t FL
Dimensions: 275 x 32,7(47,2 PE) x 8,2m
Propulsion: 4 propellers, 4 turbines VHP, 140 000 cv. et 32 knots max.
Crew: 380
Electronics: Radars 2 Palm Front, Top Sail, Top steer, 2 Head Light, 2 Pop group, 2 Owl Screech, 2 bass Tilt, 1 Trap Door. 1 Sonar de proue, 1 SPV, 8 CME Side Globes, 12 Bell, 4 Rum Tub, 2×2 Lance leurres.
Armament: 4×2 SSN14 (24), 2×2 SAN3 72), 2×2 SAN4 (40), 4 x 76 mm (2×2), 8 x30 mm Gatling, 10 x 533 mm TTs (2×5), 1×2 LR SUW1, 2 RBU 6000 (2×12), 12 Yak-38, 19 helicopters ASM Kamov Ka-25B/C “Hormone”.

Edited by Nightshade/PR

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