Physics defying mig 19 fixes?

[WitchyWoman 46]

I have read on the forum in a few places about the whacky flight models of some Mig-17's but I noticed in TFS 2 campaign that the AI flown Mig-19's are also doing this and by that i mean the 19 doing speeds of like 400-540mph and able to out turn me no matter how fast or slow I am going in turns. This is not realistic. is there any tweak file or settings to input into the .INI to fix this?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 22, 2019 by WitchyWoman

[Stratos 3,167]

AFAIK AI pilots does not suffer from blackouts or problems with non powered ailerons.

[WitchyWoman 46]

 I understand that but saw a fix posted for mig 17's and thought maybe it had been done for the 19's as well.

[Stratos 3,167]

11 hours ago, MUnicorn said:

 I understand that but saw a fix posted for mig 17's and thought maybe it had been done for the 19's as well.

Not available I think. But there are others that know better than me.

[MigBuster 2,861]

Not sure if anyone changed the flight model specifically.....personally I kept it as a challenge.........doesn't turn as well as the MiG-17 but in something like a non clean F-100 using tactics like getting a wingy to shoot him was usually the best way.

 

[+baffmeister 1,203]

Many of the ThirdWire flight models seem quite theoretical and don't necessarily reflect some of the bad habits of the real aircraft. I've checked a few and the sustained and instantaneous "G" was good up to a point but the transonic performance seems exaggerated  and they seem to be soft around the edges  regarding departure behavior.  It's possible to make adjustments if you have good data from performance  charts but that's not always easy to get, especially for the Soviet types.

One thing I noticed about the MiG-19 FM specifically, the total CD0 values are very low,  less than the MiG-21 in fact. That seems unlikely to me so adding some CD0 drag to the fuselage will reduce the acceleration a bit. The type had a good thrust/weight ratio for the time so even after the adjustment it remains quite potent.

If anyone has some performance charts and/or flight notes for the type I'd be interested in taking a closer look.

[+baffmeister 1,203]

Here's some additional information for any "home chefs" that might want to try the CD0 adjustment for the MiG-19S.

I get the total CD0 values by adding up the headline CD0 values for the fuselage, inner and outer wing panels, V-stab and H-stab. The results for the stock Mig-19S and MiG-21MF are:

MiG-19S = 0.0126

MiG-21MF = 0.0173

The MiG-21MF totals are actually quite close to what I've seen from some online sources and look reasonable compared to some reference info I have for similar types. Typically, the TW CD0 totals are considerably less than the reference values I have.

I don't think it's possible for the MiG-19s to have a lower CD0 drag total than the MiG-21 so a conservative guess would put the MiG-19 at around 0.018 total. I actually think it would be quite a bit higher than that but I've had some performance issues when trying to use realistic CD0 values so will keep the MiG-19 at the low end. To get to the 0.018 total it seems reasonable to just add the extra drag to the fuselage so here's the edit to try out:

[Fuselage]
ModelNodeName=Fuselage
HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE
CLa=0.0966
CD0=0.0125//0.0071..........................................do this
CDL=0.0001
Cm0=0.0002
Cmq=-0.4493
Cmad=0.0042
Cyb=-0.0966
Cnb=-0.0868
CD0MachTableNumData=16

I haven't done any formal testing with this edit due to lack of MiG-19 data but it I thinks it's "maybe" a legitimate way to address some of the "probable" over performance of the TW MiG-19s.

 

 

[+Richo 65]

You are flying in a world with hardly no gravity and wind resistance.  Normally I would do this to either enhance or tone down a bit on the AI.

Normally I just set him up for the wing man to toast him or Get #3 or #4 if there still alive.  But this little tweak does work.

[FlightControl]
StallSpeed=63.06
CruiseSpeed=305.2 <---------------<<<<
ClimbSpeed=231.5
CornerSpeed=218.6 <----------------<<<<
LandingSpeed=80.06
MaxG=5.8 <-----------------------<<<<
MaxSpeedSL=416 <------------------<<<<
MachLimit=2.83
PitchDamper=0.7
RollDamper=0.4
YawDamper=0.0
GunBoresightAngle=0
RocketBoresightAngle=0
MissileBoresightAngle=0
FlapSettingForLanding=2
FlapSettingForTakeOff=1

Thanks for the CDO information Baffmeister and I will try them out.

[+baffmeister 1,203]

16 hours ago, Richo said:

You are flying in a world with hardly no gravity and wind resistance.

Well, there is gravity and I've found the TW "wind tunnel" very good when tuning drag on some WW2 types although the late war prop planes can have issues with top speeds when using what I think are realistic CD0 values. I did a quick test on the MiG-19 and the sustained G seems very high for such an old jet. It seemed to be in the 8+ sustained G at high subsonic speeds although that's a bit of an approximation because it's quite difficult to maintain a constant G turn, especially with the old swizzle stick I'm using. With a proper performance chart it would be possible to adjust the CDL values to get something more realistic but at the moment I have no idea what might be accurate for a MiG-19. From some "web stuff" the DCS MiG-19 does 5.4G sustained but no mention of the weight, altitude or speed that occurs at.

[+Piecemeal 450]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:01 AM, Richo said:

You are flying in a world with hardly no gravity

Have you tried switching your engine(s) off? That ought to fix your gravity issues fairly sharpish 

[+Richo 65]

No I have not how do you do this I will give it a shot?

[Wrench 9,426]

control/ I (eye)