Muzzle fire at Anti-Aircraft_Guns of Tanks

[+Gepard 10,241]

We can make the Fla-MGs (german term for anti-aircraft-machineguns, is shorter) of tanks movable, so that they are aiming on ground and air targets. We can make them shoot too.

But there is often a distance between muzzle of the gun and muzzle flash. Is there a way to solve this problem? At ships it works fine, but at tanks not.

Screenshot that explain what i mean:

GK's M-84, you see the flash right of Fla-MG

stock M60A1, the muzzle flash is left from gun muzzle.

 

[Wrench 9,429]

is there a statement for "attached node" or words to that effect? (like ship & aircraft gun turrets?)

[Gatling20 748]

I have never found a consistent solution to this issue. In the stock ground objects,  like the M48, M60, Centurions etc, TK only had the main gun as a weapon, the extra AAMGs (Fla-MGs) have I think all been added later by the community.

First you need a separate gunner for the AAMG set up in the Data.INI, as in GK's recent M-84, otherwise the AA MG will just fire in the same direction as the main gun. In the M-84 the main gun is operated by YawModelNodeName=Turret and PitchModelNodeName=Gun, and the AA gun is operated by a separate [Gunner1] with YawModelNodeName=commander_hatch and PitchModelNodeName=MG_Pitch.

Then (I think) it is just matter of getting the MuzzlePosition right. Although if the pivot of the separate AAMG is set up wrong in the model, the AAMG muzzle flash probably cannot be fixed.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Gatling20

[+acesfakia 1,198]

       

FIND   THE  MGBarell position ....with LODViewer   By mue,  if is possible.

This is a Muzzleposition mistake

Edited December 6, 2021 by acesfakia

[Gatling20 748]

I think that must be a modded Data.INI for the M-60, the stock M60A1_Data.INI extracted from ObjectData001.CAT only has the main GunTypeName=105MM_M68, and no MGs.

And without a separate Gunner set up for that 50Cal it will just fire like a coaxial MG, not as an AA MG.

[+Gepard 10,241]

This are my lines from M60A1_data.ini

[FlaGunner]
SystemType=GUNNER
GunnerID=1
TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND
GunRange=1500.0
GunMinAltitude=0.0
GunMaxAltitude=1500.0
PitchAngleRate=30
MaxPitch=60.0
MinPitch=-15.0
DefaultPitchAngle=0
YawLimited=FALSE
YawAngleRate=30
MinYaw=
MaxYaw=
DefaultYawAngle=0
YawModelNodeName=cupola turret
PitchModelNodeName=machine gun
ViewportPosition=0.55,-0.30,3.05
VisualSearchTime=4.0
IndependentSearchChance=60
LookAroundChance=50

[FlaMG]
SystemType=GUN
GunnerID=1
GunTypeName=50cal_M3
MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82
MaxAmmo=1000
TracerLoading=6
BurstAmount=12
EjectShells=TRUE

 

The muzzle position is taken from LOD viewer. The problem is, that the gun moves in one direction, but is firing in an other direction.

[+Gepard 10,241]

1 hour ago, Wrench said:

is there a statement for "attached node" or words to that effect? (like ship & aircraft gun turrets?)

Where must i look for this "attached node"?

[+acesfakia 1,198]

2 minutes ago, Gepard said:

This are my lines from M60A1_data.ini

[FlaGunner]
SystemType=GUNNER
GunnerID=1
TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND
GunRange=1500.0
GunMinAltitude=0.0
GunMaxAltitude=1500.0
PitchAngleRate=30
MaxPitch=60.0
MinPitch=-15.0
DefaultPitchAngle=0
YawLimited=FALSE
YawAngleRate=30
MinYaw=
MaxYaw=
DefaultYawAngle=0
YawModelNodeName=cupola turret----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME CORRECT or NO ???
PitchModelNodeName=machine gun-----------------------. PitchModelNodeName=MGTurret   ???  NAME CORRECT or NO ???
ViewportPosition=0.55,-0.30,3.05
VisualSearchTime=4.0
IndependentSearchChance=60
LookAroundChance=50

[FlaMG]
SystemType=GUN
GunnerID=1
GunTypeName=50cal_M3
MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82--------------------MuzzlePosition=0.69,1.75,2.90  ? ? ?   possition   CORRECT or NO ???
MaxAmmo=1000
TracerLoading=6
BurstAmount=12
EjectShells=TRUE

 

 

 

[+acesfakia 1,198]

M60A1_DATA.INI           original extract

M-60A1_DATA.INI   from the game  Data ini new......in Combatace.....

Edited December 6, 2021 by acesfakia

[Gatling20 748]

Gepard: I have never seen or heard of "attached node" in ground objects. Your Data.INI numbers for the FlaMG look right, and if they are taken from the LOD Viewer I'm sure they are correct.

The only thing I would try would be to change MuzzlePosition=0.50,1.384,2.82 to MuzzlePosition=-0.50,-1.384,2.82, and see if that changes things for the better.

Also, make sure that the YawModelNodeName=cupola turret and PitchModelNodeName=machine gun are the correct names in the LOD.

[Wrench 9,429]

I just used "attached node", cause I couldn't think of another name!! Hope that didn't throw things off.

[Gatling20 748]

Gepard: One other thing you might try is to assign the MG to GunnerID=2, instead of 1. The tank main gun in the M-60 is declared via the WeaponSystem and is not assigned a GunnerID, and it may be that the game engine sets the main gun as GunnerID=1 by default which then conflicts with your AA MG. So try this:

[FlaGunner]
SystemType=GUNNER
GunnerID=2
......

[FlaMG]
SystemType=GUN
GunnerID=2
.....

 

.

[+GKABS 8,329]

The machine gun issue is due to a moving gun being on top of another moving gun mount. Known issue with the game.  I have tried fixing it by attaching the machine gun to the chassis with sacrificing, the accuracy of the machine gun position (you have to center it to the Turret). I did that witht the Chieftain-mk5 with success.  

But couldn't do it with the M-84 as it would really look totaly inaccurate. 

Maybe there's another way that I don't know of, but that's what I did.

Edited December 7, 2021 by GKABS

[+Gepard 10,241]

19 hours ago, Gatling20 said:

Gepard: One other thing you might try is to assign the MG to GunnerID=2, instead of 1. The tank main gun in the M-60 is declared via the WeaponSystem and is not assigned a GunnerID, and it may be that the game engine sets the main gun as GunnerID=1 by default which then conflicts with your AA MG. So try this:

[FlaGunner]
SystemType=GUNNER
GunnerID=2
......

[FlaMG]
SystemType=GUN
GunnerID=2
.....

 

Unfortunatly it dont work.

[Gatling20 748]

Schade. It must be the way the pivots are set up in the LOD itself, which means that it can't be fixed via the Data.INI. 

[+acesfakia 1,198]

Ι think also that the the pivots are set up  wrong or the names  =

YawModelNodeName=MGTurret
PitchModelNodeName=MGBarrel

...are....wrong.....  Here in the photo are 3 difernent position's.....for the MG MuzzlePosition

[+Gepard 10,241]

The node names i have taken from LOD viewer. They are correct. The anti-aircraft-gun turret and barrel are moving as they should. But they are often not shooting in the direction in which the barrel is aming.

[+gerwin 449]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

The anti-aircraft-gun turret and barrel are moving as they should. But they are often not shooting in the direction in which the barrel is aming.

AFAIK it is the other way around. The muzzle flash and bullets go to target, but the 3D model of the sub-turret is pointing in the wrong way. AFAIK it is because the game cannot handle the rotation of a sub-turret placed on another rotating turret. It is like that with all such ground objects that I made new in 3DS Max. It is a cosmetic thing only.

Though in both your screenshots the MG muzzle flash is pointing in the main gun barrel direction, which may indicate something else is wrong there.

[Wilches 1,156]

Did you guys already notice that the same applies to the gun turrets on planes?

[+Gepard 10,241]

19 hours ago, gerwin said:

AFAIK it is the other way around. The muzzle flash and bullets go to target, but the 3D model of the sub-turret is pointing in the wrong way. AFAIK it is because the game cannot handle the rotation of a sub-turret placed on another rotating turret. It is like that with all such ground objects that I made new in 3DS Max. It is a cosmetic thing only.

Though in both your screenshots the MG muzzle flash is pointing in the main gun barrel direction, which may indicate something else is wrong there.

Sometimes it works. And then, some seconds later, its the same rubbish as before.

I think it is really a limit of the game engine, that it cant handle correct a rotating cuppola on a rotating turret.

Not satisfying.

[+Gepard 10,241]

5 hours ago, Wilches said:

Did you guys already notice that the same applies to the gun turrets on planes?

At ships and planes this problem not appears.

[KJakker 875]

39 minutes ago, Gepard said:

At ships and planes this problem not appears.

Which ships have a moving turret on top of another turret? 

[+GKABS 8,329]

1 hour ago, Gepard said:

Sometimes it works. And then, some seconds later, its the same rubbish as before.

That is correct when the main gun is not locked on a target the secondary gun will work correct but the minute the main gun finds a target and locks on it and gets commited to it, the firing effect will not allign with the muzzle of the barrel.

[+Gepard 10,241]

On 9.12.2021 at 6:19 PM, KJakker said:

Which ships have a moving turret on top of another turret? 

In SF2 world none. In reality it was not uncommon during WW2.

Here a picture of the front turret of japanese Battleship Nagato. On the top you can see two tripple Flak guns. The picture was taken at Bikini Atoll some days befor an A-Bomb test.