+Tailspin 3 Posted December 19, 2006 It looks like we're getting along well with all the new ideas regarding mods to First Eagles. Also it seems we are getting a little disorganized. First, I think we need to get away from using file attachments as download sources. CombatACE has a file upload feature for that purpose. My main concern with these files is that many are works in progress, betas if you will, still in the experimental stage. Leaving them available for anyone to download is just inviting trouble. Adding to the problem are the ongoing changes made to the files in question as they are fine tuned and updated...more potential confusion and conflicting information. Of course testing these changes is essential and the more testers the better the final product. There are ways to share files, like PMs or email, that don't leave these "experiments" available to the casual user who doesn't know just what he's downloading. The other way to share these changes is to post the changes themselves in the format I've used in the Sticky at the top of the forum. This way everyone knows exactly what the tweak changes and how its done. Next...posting these fixes or improvements in posts within threads is just going to get them scattered out where they'll be hard to find. Thats why we have a Sticky for .INI Tweaks and Changes. Right now everything is still on page 1 but if traffic picks up and topics get pushed down.... Finally....By all means keep up the effort. Work among yourselves and enjoy the process. But lets try and get things as nearly finalised as possible before we post files for "public" consumption. Feel free to post in the Sticky thread. If you want to zip em up for download try and use the CombatACE upload feature. Comments or suggestions are welcome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IndioBlack Posted December 19, 2006 I think that it's obvious these attached files are tests. It says so in the thread. The people who are following the thread will be able to find the updates. It's also important to note that some mods are just simple changes that people write into their postings, and most people have no trouble finding those. We got the taxying trick that way. What I would dislike is to download something from the downloads page that I believe is a finished product, when it's actually a test. Then to compound this error, I may miss spotting the updated and finished file, in the mistaken belief that I have the final product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted December 20, 2006 I think that it's obvious these attached files are tests. It says so in the thread. The people who are following the thread will be able to find the updates. It's also important to note that some mods are just simple changes that people write into their postings, and most people have no trouble finding those. We got the taxying trick that way. What I would dislike is to download something from the downloads page that I believe is a finished product, when it's actually a test. Then to compound this error, I may miss spotting the updated and finished file, in the mistaken belief that I have the final product. Fortunately things aren't always so obvious to everyone and not everyone will have been following the thread closley. Whether they're simple changes or complete rewrites of an .ini isn't the point. Do you object to simplifying the matter and making it even easier for everyone to find things by trying to have a central location? Your last paragraph is an excellent argument for working the bugs out and not posting files willy nilly. We can still post and share changes and discuss those changes while working toward a finished result without putting beta files out there for just anyone to pick up without having to even read the posts. bortdafarm asked about appropriate use of the forum. I asked. The boss says we need to use the upload section for file downloads. I agree with your point about unfinished or beta files in the uploads section so we need to work around that. Not so difficult to understand is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IndioBlack Posted December 20, 2006 No, it's not difficult to understand. But I perceived that your post was intending to make things easier to understand, so I was going with the flow of assuming nothing. I probably didn't make my point clearly, because we just had a cable fault and it was affecting me taping my favourite TV show, so I had to sign off quickly in order to switch off the system and reboot. I was trying to make the distinction between changes that involve alteration to .ini files and standalone add-ons. The latter is clear: It's a new aircraft, changes to engine sounds, ambient adjustments for more colourful skies, or more grey skies - choose your favourite ambience. It's a neatly packaged product in a box. But alterations to .ini files can be just a few lines that, for instance, enable aircraft taxying; or enable separating out the guns on the Se5 to individual triggers. They seem to work well in forum texts, because they are simple fixes to try-out. But I do see the advantage of these going somewhere that late-comers can access. I clearly recognise that if I hadn't been following these threads here and elsewhere, I wouldn't have known about them. However, I wouldn't strictly class them as downloads, and so perhaps they should be placed in a fixes or knowledge section, like the sticky thread you started. Then there are .ini changes which involve large amounts of alterations, where a download of all the files is simpler. But what happens when they are works-in-progress ? Even now the AIMOD is going through a little re-assessment by the authors. Certainly it is interesting to view the thread because you get some idea of where the authors are going, and some of the details they are trying to work through. And I value being given the opportunity to try the ideas out, and to offer constructive feedback. Because of the re-assessment, I'm hanging back on using it. The question is: How will I know when it's finished? For me, that point should be when it appeared in the downloads. But the problem is that it is already in the downloads. In some ways you have to address the eternal dilemma: People want it finished, but they want it now. And rarely can they have both. Whatever you decide to do, the important thing is that anything unfinished is flagged clearly as a work-in-progress and any updates are flagged clearly as updates. That's as much as you can do. It's then up to the board users to visit regularly and look in the right places. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted December 20, 2006 The only aspect of the process I'm trying to address is making the files downloadable and the potential problems associated with that. Wholesale rewrites and major changes to basic gameplay should be tested as thoroughly as possible before being posted for download....and if you can download the file what else would you call it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted December 20, 2006 (edited) well i dunno what you call it but it doesn't sound like a suggestion to me.... do you want me to edit the AIMOD thread and remove the attachments or not? as you wish it of course... Edited December 20, 2006 by bortdafarm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IndioBlack Posted December 20, 2006 well i dunno what you call it but it doesn't sound like a suggestion to me....do you want me to edit the AIMOD thread and remove the attachments or not? as you wish it of course... Personally, I'm arguing for you to keep the thread and the attachments, until you feel you've sorted the mod out to your own satisfaction. But I don't run the site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted December 20, 2006 many thanks Indio.. but lets express a note of caution here (aimed at myself as much as anything lol) you know how these topics can sometimes get out of hand a little ... what i have done is to set up a small website to host the bits and bobs relating tho this project and a few other things as time go by... as my tastes in modding are often quite personal to myself and often don't satisfy other folks.. the variuos versions of the mod might serve to provide an alternative both to stock and to the other mods.. we all like ice cream but not every-one likes the same flavour to coin a phrase...that's my philosophy on modding...and that is why i allways provide as many versions of a mod as i make for myself regardless of wether they do the job pefectly or not...it is perhaps a trap to wait for a some sort of definitive mod that is a cure all...as it is allmost inevitable that tastes will differ on this...and that other un forseen issues may arise from using such a mod (any mod in fact) mistakes will be made...but that's part of the joy of computer gaming and FE is perfecty set so no harm can be done..delete the files and your sorted... here's the link to the site such as it is... Bort's funny little mod page ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IndioBlack Posted December 20, 2006 here's the link to the site such as it is... Bort's funny little mod page ... Thanks. You're bookmarked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+v. Deutschmark 69 Posted December 20, 2006 (S!) ALL hi ;-) Nice bortdafarm, will you except modes from others as well? You could have and experimental mode part to your site, Just a thought, also you might want to post your link at Third Wire site in the First Eagles forum, now all we need is An info site like this as well where you do not post just upload info By way of sending it to the site master and having him put it up, Just another thought. your friend in the sky v. Deutschmark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted December 20, 2006 well i dunno what you call it but it doesn't sound like a suggestion to me....do you want me to edit the AIMOD thread and remove the attachments or not? as you wish it of course... Lets not read too much into my concerns about people not knowing what they're downloading. I am just making suggestions after all. File attachments have been used in the past and you can continue to do so. When you get it worked out to your satisfaction how about posting a copy in the .INI Tweaks thread for everyone's convenience? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted December 21, 2006 (edited) Lets not read too much into my concerns about people not knowing what they're downloading. I am just making suggestions after all. File attachments have been used in the past and you can continue to do so. When you get it worked out to your satisfaction how about posting a copy in the .INI Tweaks thread for everyone's convenience? Thanks willdo...it's funny but that's one of the reasons i thought about doing it thru the forum..as i was working on version two of the mod then suddenly thought ..heck folks ull get right confused if there are too many versions in the officail downloads section.. version one has it's benifits and can stand on it's own two feet... i am making progress ...but getting the ball rolling is one thing .(AIMODv1)..getting it to the top of the hill is something else alltogether!! anyhuw it's usefull to have a forum to swop things about in the open as it were and it might attract the attention of more expert file modders eho may know a few tricks for this stuff Deutschmark!! many thanks for the encouragemnt...it looks like we have the all clear thanks to Tailspin to do a little bit of judicious experimental (small) file posting here at the excellent CA forum's, so all's well for some community experimentation Edited December 21, 2006 by bortdafarm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
