New Halberstadt DII by Bortdafarm

[+peter01 2]

A beautiful model, and flies great.

 

Good to see Bort not only updating his models but building new ones (like this and the Farman Shorthorn and Longhorn recently) .......

 

Tho not that well known, the Halb DII was an very important plane in 1916, "and enjoyed a brief period of superiority over its adversaries", so thanks to Bort for doing this....very much appreciated. Maybe he'll do the DI and DIII as well!!!!

 

Available at Bort's site here http://www.ebort2.co.uk/FE.html

[Alexander51 3]

Another FM project for you if you want I threw this together

in order to correct the muzzle flash offset for this plane:

 

[internalGun1]

SystemType=FIXED_GUN

GunTypeName=7.92MM_SPANDAU_LMG08/15

InputName=FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN

GunGroup=1

MuzzlePosition=0.17,0.74,0.30 < ------------------

LightPosition=0.17,0.74,0.30 < -----------------

AimAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

MaxAmmo=400

EjectShells=FALSE

EjectPosition=0.0,-0.86,0.65

EjectVelocity=0.0,0.0,-1.0

MinExtentPosition=-0.13,0.89,0.37

MaxExtentPosition=-0.13,0.84,0.33

GunFireAnimationID=7

 

Craigster

[+sinbad 27]

MRCraig41

 

Thanks for the correction. It's tough to get everything right, but Bort is doing a terrific job.

 

I notice you have also adjusted the MaxAmmo to 400. I do not have access to my library at the moment, but I believe the Spandaus had 500 RPG at this time. That's what I have set for my rig.

 

 

BTW, in March 1917, Manfred von Richthoven got kills 26 - 31 in a Halberstadt DII http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/richthofen2.php.

 

As far as I have been able to determine there are no known photos which document the paint scheme on this aircraft. I'd love to find one, though.

 

sinbad

Edited March 21, 2007 by sinbad

[Alexander51 3]

.............I believe the Spandaus had 500 RPG at this time.

 

Ah very good. 500 it is <S> The more bullets the better

Edited March 21, 2007 by MrCraig41

[+Tailspin 3]

Ahhh...another target to for the Neiuports.

[Firecage 1]

Is this Halb doing pretty well vs the allied planes so far? Im at work watching a server load at this point so I wont see if for a bit today. I will check and see if I can get to Bort's site and take a look.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Firecage

[+Tailspin 3]

Took her for a spin. Agility is good as it should be but it seems very reluctant to nose over and dive. In fact if you climb at too steep an angle you lose almost all elevator authority in the negative. Not much info out there for the Halberstadt but I did a Google and came across this from the Sim Outhouse OFF forums:

 

 

 

From Peter Grosz, "Halberstadt Fighters" Albatros Datafile Special

"The Halberstadt fighter was universally esteemed for its facile flight characteristics, quickness of control response and excellent performance, praise probably not equalled until the arrival of the Fokker DVII. Leutnant Rudolf Nebel of Jasta 5 fondly recalled flying the fighter with just one finger lightly curled around the stick. Of all he flew, the nimble Halberstadt fighter was his favourite aircraft.....'The Halberstadter has a very great advantage - it flies by itself, while in the Fokker monoplane one must pay constant attention. This is of more importance than one might first imagine because in the Halberstadt the pilot can even kneel on the seat and observe the sky and earth continually to search for and attack the enemy. In the Fokker one can barely turn one's head and it goes awry'....

....Richtofen wrote: ' The view above, below and to the sides must be faultless. Albatros DIII good, Albatros DII especially poor downwards, Albatros DI impossible in a dogfight. In the Halberstadt fighters the top wing is too close to the eyes and placed exactly at eye level. Further away from the eyes and a touch higher is more suitable for dog fighting.'

Because it lacked a fixed tail fin, the Halberstadt was very manoeuvrable and a British report stated that 'a surprisingly large percentage of those brought down were observed to come to earth in what appeared to our pilots to be a spinning dive.' But the manoeuvre, as is well known, was a standard ploy for escaping from a precarious situation.

Josef Jacobs wrote that: 'Frankl flew the Halberstadt in the wildest banks and loops that I had ever seen....During the afternoon I took up a Halberstadt for the first time. The machine was extraordinarily easy to fly, was very fast and stable, and possessed no vices.' In a mock dogfight with an Albatros DI...'the slower but more manoeuvrable aircraft is superior to a faster one in a dogfight situation....I was impressed by the sluggishness of the Albatros during climbs and banks; the cause may be attributed to it's longer and heavier engine."

 

I haven't tried it in combat yet. It should be a close match to the N11 though.

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Interesting comments about the Halberstadt D2. Is there some confusion between the D2 and D3? I thought it interesting to compare Tucker Hatfield's (Red Baron 2) comments which I got from Cage's World:

 

4. The Halberstadt DII was a very poor plane. The engine did not develop sufficient power for its weight. The airfoil had poor AOA characteristics, and the undersized vertical stabilizer provided inadequate lateral stability. The center of lift was close to the center of gravity, and that gave the plane poor roll stability. There is an anecdotal report of Manfred Von Richtofen being saved by his seat belt while ferrying a DII when the plane suddenly rolled inverted unexpectedly from level flight. Only two Jasta's were equipped with the Halberstadt DII, and those planes were soon withdrawn from service.

 

Note I'm not throwing stones, just looking for clarification or opinions.

[+peter01 2]

Everything I have read online and in books about the Halb DII is very positive, especially agile and nimble and easy to fly, superior to all fighters in mid to late 1916 including Nieuport 17/SpadsVII. I remember a comment by Nungesser I think quoted at some online site stating the Spad 150HP (a successful plane) was inferior to the Halb DII, asking for the Spad to be improved.

 

The reason, as I understand it, that it was not an overly successful plane was it was quickly supplanted by the Albatros DII - 2 guns and far quicker, then of course by the Alb DIII, the undisputed king.

 

I may be wrong, its be known - I'd be interested to know others views as well.

[+Tailspin 3]

Well there is definately a conflict of information. This is from theaerodrome.com forum discussing the deployment of the Halb. DII.

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/...hp/t-11155.html

 

Another point to ponder and with all due respect to Mr. Hatfield...the "Halberstadt Fighters" account seems to come from actual pilots who flew the airplane.

[geezer205 0]

Well there is definately a conflict of information. This is from theaerodrome.com forum discussing the deployment of the Halb. DII.

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/...hp/t-11155.html

 

Another point to ponder and with all due respect to Mr. Hatfield...the "Halberstadt Fighters" account seems to come from actual pilots who flew the airplane.

 

Also, the Windsock data file for the Halberstadt points out that when Von Richtoven had his unpleasant experience with the Halberstadt, he was rubbernecking and flying HANDS OFF the controls! This is consistant with the other pilots' comments about the excellent stability of the Halberstadt.

[+Tailspin 3]

Thanks for the additional info geezer...and welcome to CombatACE.

[geezer205 0]

Thanks for the additional info geezer...and welcome to CombatACE.

 

I have been in professional aviation - and a passionate history buff - for forty years, so I was a bit puzzled by the excellent accounts of the Halberstadt contrasting with it's short service life. As best I can tell, the Halberstadt was simply overtaken by the fast moving techno-race that began with the Fokker Eindekker.

 

The Halberstadt was an immensely strong machine with excellent handling characteristics, but was designed around the German series of 120 hp engines (Argus and Mercedes) and could not accept the more powerful 160 hp series of engines. When compared to the Albatros series of fighters, the Halberstadt was 25% less powerful and had more drag because of the extra struts and wires of it's multi-bay wing cellue. So...even though the Albatros fighters lacked the structural strength and nice handling of the Halberstadt, their climb, dive, and level speed was better. Plus, they carried twin Spandaus.

 

Interestingly, the Windsock publication says that 31 machines (apparently D.5s) were expressly built for use by Turkey as the Halberstadt's many good qualities were considered more important than raw speed in the demanding Palestine theater of operations.

[Baron von Legs 0]

Interesting to see the varying accounts of the Halberstadt. As the last poster described, it would seem an excellent plane to fly, as was the Sopwith Pup, yet aircraft got outperformed very quickly in the early days. The Pup was replaced by the Triplane and Halberstadt with the Albatross marks as described earlier. Within a few months better rigs/engines would be up.

 

With regards to the F.E modeled H D.II, I found it to be fairly manuevarable (compared to N17s no less!) with an excellent rudder yaw as you'd expect from a 95mph plane yet as mentioned above somewhere it tends to hang when going to dive/stick forward. Use the rudder at this point and your nose will soon point to the sky!

 

von Legs.

[Baron von Legs 0]

I have been in professional aviation - and a passionate history buff - for forty years, so I was a bit puzzled by the excellent accounts of the Halberstadt contrasting with it's short service life. As best I can tell, the Halberstadt was simply overtaken by the fast moving techno-race that began with the Fokker Eindekker.

 

The Halberstadt was an immensely strong machine with excellent handling characteristics, but was designed around the German series of 120 hp engines (Argus and Mercedes) and could not accept the more powerful 160 hp series of engines. When compared to the Albatros series of fighters, the Halberstadt was 25% less powerful and had more drag because of the extra struts and wires of it's multi-bay wing cellue. So...even though the Albatros fighters lacked the structural strength and nice handling of the Halberstadt, their climb, dive, and level speed was better. Plus, they carried twin Spandaus.

 

Interestingly, the Windsock publication says that 31 machines (apparently D.5s) were expressly built for use by Turkey as the Halberstadt's many good qualities were considered more important than raw speed in the demanding Palestine theater of operations.

 

Many interesting facts there Geezer 205! where did you come by the info? (regarding 120hp - 160 hp conversions).

[Baron von Legs 0]

"Because it lacked a fixed tail fin, the Halberstadt was very manoeuvrable and a British report stated that 'a surprisingly large percentage of those brought down were observed to come to earth in what appeared to our pilots to be a spinning dive.' But the manoeuvre, as is well known, was a standard ploy for escaping from a precarious situation."

 

Man, everyones gonna get sick of me. Is the lack of a fixed tail fin the reason for its (simulated) manueverability in yaw?

 

 

Its friday night. What I do.

[+Tailspin 3]

Interesting comment regarding the N17. IMHO the N17 and N11 are a little "sluggish" as modeled in the sim. No slam against Tex Murphy who did the FMs...just another opinion. I tend to modify the FMs to my own liking anyway. Its what I love about FE. You can tweak it yourself.

 

The lack of a fixed tail fin means the entire vertical tail was also the rudder. Oddly that was usually associated with instability.

 

geezer205...as the saying goes in air combat, Speed is Life.

[Baron von Legs 0]

Interesting comment regarding the N17. IMHO the N17 and N11 are a little "sluggish" as modeled in the sim. No slam against Tex Murphy who did the FMs...just another opinion. I tend to modify the FMs to my own liking anyway. Its what I love about FE. You can tweak it yourself.

 

The lack of a fixed tail fin means the entire vertical tail was also the rudder. Oddly that was usually associated with instability.

 

geezer205...as the saying goes in air combat, Speed is Life.

 

 

Having an entire vertical tail as a rudder would, I thought, spin the entire plane out. Rear left/right aierlions as rudder may be what causes dramatic drag when going to dive.... just a thought.

[geezer205 0]

geezer205...as the saying goes in air combat, Speed is Life.

 

Yep - and double the firepower ain't bad either! :wink, wink:

 

Another guy asked about my info source. The Windsock pubs are widely regarded as one of the better sources for WW1 aircraft info. Their Halberstadt pub states that the only Halberstadt single-seater fitted with a larger engine was the D4 - only two prototypes were built and they were rejected because the upper wing was not in the optimum location. The design basically looked like a small CL2 - obviously it showed enough promise to be enlarged into the excellent two-seat fighter that most people are familiar with.

 

Another comment comparing the single-seat Halberstadts to the Sopwith Pup was a very good observation - both were optimised for their original engines and could not be upgraded without significant re-design.

[SRT 0]

I will probably regret asking this, but what are the "Windsock pubs"? If you don't tell me that is okay, because I have a feeling if I knew about these pubs, it could lead to turning me into an obsessive WWI historian or something. This darn game is already messing up my life, anyway. My fate is in your hands ... (BTW, I always wondered why they didn't develop the "beloved" Pup. Thanks!

[Sopwith_Kennel 0]

I will probably regret asking this, but what are the "Windsock pubs"? If you don't tell me that is okay, because I have a feeling if I knew about these pubs, it could lead to turning me into an obsessive WWI historian or something. This darn game is already messing up my life, anyway. My fate is in your hands ... (BTW, I always wondered why they didn't develop the "beloved" Pup. Thanks!

 

http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/ They publish data files on WWI aircraft

 

and

 

WINDSOCK INTERNATIONAL magazine....

[SRT 0]

Thank you for this information! No wonder you guys know so much.