OT- F****** Idiots!..hahaha

[rabu 9]

Coffee anyone?

 

Don't worry, it's a discussion, not a flame war!

[Bullethead 12]

There is no proof that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to human nature and our world as thinking, compassion, or religion. It's just a theory from the 1800's having more to do with physics and energy, not humanity and humanism. I'm really not even sure why you brought it up, but you apparently would like to put the human race into the category of physics?

 

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics isn't a theory, it's an inescapable fact firmly established as one of the cornerstones of the workings of the entire universe. Everything from clusters of galaxies to bacteria must obey it. That's why we give it the honorific "law" in its name. If the "Gods of the Copybook Headings" have a physical manifestation, it's in this law. Simply put, the 2nd Law states that you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't quit the game.

 

Sure, the 2nd Law doesn't directly affect human nature. Except for those poor engineering students who have to learn about it in college, most folks don't know this law exists and act like it doesn't. This is why folks waste their lives trying to invent perpetual motion machines. Maybe the average educated person has heard that perpetual motion is impossible, and perhaps accepts that, but he usually doesn't know why, and doesn't see that the same reason for that applies to everything else, even his own actions. But because of the 2nd Law, everything always falls apart or breaks down eventually, resources (even so-called renewable ones) always run out, and the cost of living keeps going up as a result. The best people can do is invent a way to stave off the inevitable collapse a bit longer, because nothing they do will ever come close to 100% efficiency in real, as opposed to short-term economic, terms.

 

I'm not going to pursue this, as you obviously have your own beliefs and I have mine. To me, yours sound very negative though

 

Optimists often confuse realism with pessimism and are often sadly disappointed. OTOH, pessimists often confuse realism with optimism and are often pleasantly surprised. I try hard to be a realist, steering the course where neither result happens to me. This positon has the advantage of being able to say, "I told you so", to both of the other parties in turn .

 

I am a supporter of existentialism as expressed by Sartre and others.. I feel that what each of us does and even thinks has an effect on all around us, so pursuing the view that we are only violent animals, with the unchangeable attitude of killing and exploitation can only further that result if enough people are convinced that is the truth, while the opposite, a positive attitude is also possible if the majority comes to believe it in it and cares enough to try to change things for the better of all of us.. not just those with the greatest power at their disposal.

 

I myself am quite fond of Sartre's "No Exit". I can think of no better vision of Hell than to be cooped up for all Eternity in a small room with people who are fundamentally opposed to your core values, whom no amount of cogent argument can persuade to find even a shred of common ground, and whose company you cannot escape. Humans are herd animals, so the inability to meld, at least on some level, with one's immediate acquaintances is anathema to us. Give me fire, brimstone, and angry demons with pitchforks instead! I could learn to cope with that eventually :yes: .

 

So here we disagree on what existentialism means. In "No Exit", no thought or deed of anybody has any effect on any of the other characters. Everybody involved was completely set in their ways, and this was what made it Hell. But this Hell could have been found on Earth, at least for a time, if, for instance, the various characters had passed out drunk in some bar and awakened to discover themselves locked inside until opening time the next day.

 

As I understand it, the whole basis of existentialism is the experience of the common man, and that includes being surrounded by people who don't share your views and whom you can't convince otherwise. Thus, I find it incompatible with existentialism that every thought and deed affects everybody else. In fact, most philosphers who have been labeled as existentialists (sometimes post mortem) have considered themselves and their followers as a small group, almost a cult. Nietzsche even called himself and his followers "Hyperboreans". They knew that they were a small group, unable to affect anything.

 

Besides, most folks I've met who claim to be existentialists are the most depressed, fatalistic people you can imagine. Everything is pointless to them, most especially their own existence. I'd hate to see the world if their thoughts affected everybody else .

 

Good luck to you.

 

And to you. We'll have to compare notes in the next world

Edited May 31, 2009 by Bullethead

[gaw 5]

great read up and down the whole thread............and there I was puzzling over a file extention

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, considering this thread started out as a discussion on the stupidity of an Airliner crew, and has now moved on to a discussion about Life, the Universe and everything (to which I hope the answer isn't 42!)...I have to say it's one of the most interesting threads I have read on a forum ever! (and I started the thread...HORRAH) ...lol

 

And in a strange twist in my warped mind... I find the discussion betwext BH and Rabu, to be a similar crossing of swords one would expect of two great Aces of WW1.

 

Both respectful of each other...and yet an honourable desire to shoot each other down!...fascinating to say the least!!!

 

 

Thank you Gentlemen!..... When I read such things on such a deep and philosophical level (sadly, very rarely these days)

it reminds me of my Youth, and many long and enjoyable all night sessions discussing such issues, with copious quantities of 'slightly Illegal plant matter'

(sadly, very rarely these days!) and I have been whisked away to a past life experience reading this.....and such is the deja vu of it, that I can only do what I did then!...Sit in a corner, listening and learning..grinning and enjoying words that I understand perfectly well..but personaly lack the ability to voice correctly!

 

Rabu...Please allow me to explain my reference to "Coffee Anyone".......

 

After one particularly enjoyable evening...I awoke the following afternoon, with my flatmates and other assorted people who I have no idea who they where...and sitting on a cigarette burned sofa...with a huge Bong in the middle of the floor...and someone saying ......

"You know what?.... We had it last night!..the answers to Life...The Universe...and everything!"........ I stared grinning into my Coffee cup......

 

"Perhaps we did I said............ Now...What was the question again?"....... Coffee anyone?

 

Amongst my old buddies of 25 yrs ago.... the phrase stuck, and is now generally accepted as "Time for another Evening of discussion"...I live many miles away from my old friends of whom I speak here, and no longer indulge in such activities....most of them are now Doctors, Police Officers and Lawyers!!!

 

 

Such is the way of the world!!

Edited May 31, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

hahahaha

 

As a PS.....

 

On this day in History,(31st May 1911)... the hull of the Titanic was launched in Belfast. At the ceremony, a White Star Line employee claimed, “Not even God himself could sink this ship"

 

I bet he felt a right Charlie!!!!

Edited May 31, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[Olham 164]

He shouldn't have said that.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

He shouldn't have said that.

 

Yeah!..Bad move! :yes:

[rabu 9]

BH can have that last post. Interesting discussion, doesn't prove anything either way, but interesting none the less. I think it mainly shows ones outlook.

Anyway, thanks everyone.

[Bullethead 12]

Interesting discussion, doesn't prove anything either way

 

to you as well.

 

@Widowmaker, on this day, 31 May - 1 June 1916, the Battle of Jutland was fought. (Topic save for WW1 stuff )

[Olham 164]

Great discussion, Sirs - none shall say, this forum was superficial. No, we have 'style' !