Argentine Pucaras and ground units in JET THUNDER

[Argentine Pucara 1]

Since the Pucara was an aircraft used for air support and flying low while attacking helicopters and tanks, I guess tanks and other ground units should be included as well.:ph34r:

[MBot 0]

I am realy looking forward to fly the Pucara. Looks like a very interesting plane.

 

I wonder if there are plans to make it a 2-seater in multiplayer. Would be cool for training or playing FAC. But I guess it would require incredible amount of work that is better spend on more vital areas.

 

Anyone knows what weapons the Pucaras were emplyoing in the Falklands ? I Know of guns and unguided missles. Did they used bombs too ( what type ? ) ? Pehaps even cluster bombs ?

Also I read that at Goose Green the Brits found large amount of "home built" napalm canisters. Sound interesting :)

[Argentine Pucara 1]

:ph34r: The Pucara`s armament are 2 internal Hispano HS804 20-mm cannon and 4 internal FN Browning 7.62-mm guns on each side of the cockpit, which can shoot as many as 900rpgs. Modern attack aircrafts seldom carry the machineguns because of the short range and little damage to armor targets, but Pucara is widly used in low intension mission against guerilla. On the centerline pylon, it can carry 2,205-lb (1,000-kg) weapons, as well as a 1,102-lb (500-kg) pylon under each wing, outboard of the engines, carry bombs, rocket pods, gun pods, and drop tanks.:ph34r:

Edited June 24, 2004 by Argentine Pucara

[+Dante-JT 6]

I am realy looking forward to fly the Pucara. Looks like a very interesting plane.

 

I wonder if there are plans to make it a 2-seater in multiplayer. Would be cool for training or playing FAC. But I guess it would require incredible amount of work that is better spend on more vital areas.

 

Anyone knows what weapons the Pucaras were emplyoing in the Falklands ? I Know of guns and unguided missles. Did they used bombs too ( what type ? ) ? Pehaps even cluster bombs ?

Also I read that at Goose Green the Brits found large amount of "home built" napalm canisters. Sound interesting :)

Also I read that at Goose Green the Brits found large amount of "home built" napalm canisters. Sound interesting :)

 

The Pucaras actually employed napalm in combat in the battle for Goose Green, at least once, according to this site:

"Now into the late afternoon, aircraft from both sides come on the scene, starting with two MB.339's of CANA 1 Esc and two Pucaras of Grupo 3 which hit the school area. One of the Navy jets is brought down by a Royal Marine Blowpipe [a59], and minutes later one of the Pucaras drops napalm and the other is shot down by small arms fire [a60]. (12) Then three Harrier GR.3's bring much needed relief by hitting the AA guns at Goose Green with CBU's and rockets."

 

http://www.naval-history.net/F48goosegreen.htm

[Mothman 0]

Did the british used FAE bombs during the conflict, or was it just propaganda from the argentianian dictatorship?

 

I was only 9 when the conflict happened but still i remember all the propaganda and misinformation they gave us at the time.

 

There's still a lot of mysteries around the conflict, like the Sea King crashing in Chile near the argentinian border, the air strike on the Invincible, the argentinian sub attack run in the straight of San Carlos , the white flag incident in Goose Green, the reports of british troops killing soldiers who had surrendered in Mount Longdon... Oh boy. War is hell.

 

But i think you're right about Pucaras carrying Napalm. I think i've read about it from the testimonial of an argentinian pilot in a book.

 

As a side note, and somewhat back to the topic, the argentinian Air Force learned about the lessons from the conflict that the Pucara needed a single pilot version with enhanced firepower, such as a nose mounted 30mm cannon (the IA-58C project). I think that not just for ground attack, but also for "chopper hunting" missions (which by the way would be nice missions for the game).

Edited June 29, 2004 by Mothman

[Argentine Pucara 1]

I've heard that the the FAA is working on a new project to improve the IA-58

Pucara. From what I know their planning to make a version similar to the IA-58B Pucara, but with some upgrades that were given to the IA-58C Pucara,a better armour and they're gonna call it IA-58D Pucara. However, this project has slowed down because of Argentina's economic problems. :( :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

Edited July 1, 2004 by Argentine Pucara

[Argentine Pucara 1]

I just looked for it at a website. I know that talks about bombs and as far as I read it seems like they were used by the British Vulcans during the Falklands War. (The website is called www.vectorsite.net/twbomb2.html if you want to read it.) :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

Edited July 1, 2004 by Argentine Pucara

[Baco-ECv56 0]

Don´t know if napalm was used by pucaras in Malvinas.

I´ll check it out.

About the run on the Inincible it did happend (I had the honor of talking to the pilots that took part in it (2003 so its not porpaganda)

 

And My father in law (ARA ret.) knows the captain of the submarine that did fire its torpedos to the Task Force. It did happned also.

The torpedos were badly calibrated and sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic thow...

 

 

Not sure about FAE use by the British I really don´t think so.

 

There wasn´t much CAS performed by the birtish harriers that were having real trouble with argentinian AAA. (thats the reason that BAM Malvinas (Base aerea Militar named Malvinas) was operational till the last day of the war.

 

Regarding ground troops, there should be some Shimitars and infantery units. And some helos since there are acounts of Pucaras downing helos...

[WillR05 0]

800 NAS were reluctant to carry out many CAS missions because the the Captain and Wings on Hermes thought that low level CAS would be dangerous without someone in a rear seat. This was becuase Hermes' Captian and Wings were from the Buccaneer world. 801 NAS were a little more adventurous but were tied up most of the time providing CAP. The Harrier GR.3's were few in number and as has been mentioned were vunerable to AA fire. Its important to remember that the the Royal Navy intially only had 20 Sea Harriers and 4 Harriers, these were vital to the British campaign and would not be risked to often. One advantage that the British did have was the ability for night strikes which the Argentinean aircraft largely lacked, the exception being the Super Etendard which were thin on the ground. Of course its downright dangerous to fly CAS sorties at night, there's simply to great a risk of hitting your own people because of the small distances involved. It might be risked if there was a good moon though. The British did have an advantage in terms of CAP though, because of the Blue Fox Radar, superior avionics (the computer and Head Up Display really were excellent) and to a certain extent the AIM-9L. The combat pairs employed by the British also worked well and the Sea Harrier had proven an excellent dogfighter. The Argentinean Aircraft's speed advantage was lost when comat needed to be joined because you cannot fight at supersonic speed. The Argentineans were forced to fight in the Sea Harriers element when they wanted to engage the British.

[Baco-ECv56 0]

Yeap Will I agree compleatlly.

 

Alos Argentinian pilots had orders not to engage the British Harriers, since they would be hopeleslly outmacth given, as you said, that the energy advantage was lost flying NOE and subsonic in order to attack the Task Force. (besides going in low was the onlly way to reach the Task force and be able to drop paylod on it)

 

On the earlly stages of the war it was determined that A/A weapons were not adecuate for the profile of the attacks, and were dropped to be able to carry a bigger A/G payload, given the fuel needs and distances.

 

High altitude Sweeps were also discarted becouse Mirages had a few minutes of operational time over the Airspace disputed, that made impractical, escort or sweep missions. Besides we had no "all aspect" weapons and our SARH missiles were not suited to engage Fighters like the Harrier.

 

Having onlly 2 KC-130 we could not risk them to get closer to the Theater of Operations, since the lost of one aircraft would mean we would onlly be able to send half the number of flight to the islands.

 

So it was decide from the ofset that we would not engage the Harriers in Air to Air combat. Mirage III did diversionary flights to atract the PACs (Patrulla Aerea de Combate) (CAPs) to try to make an opening for the Attack aircrafts. It didn´t work as expected becouse the Birtish soon learned to discriminate between hi flying Mirage III and low incoming Daggers and A-4 Skyhawks. So later on, the distraction flights were made with Fokker F-28´s , Learjets and other civilian aircrafts flying low to resemble an incoming attack...

 

Althow since the Campaign engine of TJ will be dynamic, to have some A/A weapons would be grate to try some alternative tactics.

[Mothman 0]

One advantage that the British did have was the ability for night strikes which the Argentinean aircraft largely lacked

As far as i remember having read, the argentinian Canberras flew night bombing missions against british positions in and around Mount Kent. I think i recall about a Canberra being shot down at night during one of those missions. Only 1 out of the 2 crew of that plane was able to eject. I don't remember if it was shot down by a Sea harrier or a Sea Dart missile from a frigate.

Edited August 1, 2004 by Mothman

[Mothman 0]

High altitude Sweeps were also discarted becouse Mirages had a few minutes of operational time over the Airspace disputed, that made impractical, escort or sweep missions.

I just want to add that the Harriers had very little time over disputed airspace as well, at least until after the landings in San Carlos, where they started flying from the beachead (although the assembly of thatairfield for V/STOL was delayed when the Atlantic Conveyor was sunk along part of that kit).

 

The argentinian said that the Mirage III stoped operating over the islands because they were being preserved for an eventual conflict with Chile. The british said that the argentinian Mirage III were kept in the continent after the Vulcan bombing missions in the islands which proved that the british had capacity to bomb the continental Argentina if they wanted. Maybe both were the reasons to preserve the Mirage IIIand given the circumstances i think it was the right call.

Edited August 1, 2004 by Mothman