Need advice about dds with mipmaps

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

What program do you guys use to convert to dds with mipmaps?

 

I've tested to resave a default CFS3 dds dxt3 terrain texture with alpha channel using DXTbmp. I've used the dxt3 file format since DXTbmp shows that the default terrain texture was in that format. The "new" dds file looks OK in DXTbmp, exactly the same as the original texture and also the alpha channel looks identical.

 

When I check it in game it looks OK near the plane but further away the texture becomes very blurred.

The original texture looked OK without blurriness.

 

There are several settings in DXTbmp for mipmaps like "Use 16 bit dither", the drop downs with Box, Quadratic, Cubic, Catrom etc and also differnet scaling filters.

In the test I used the default settings:

I didn't check the '16bit dither' box.

Selected 'box'

Scaling filter selected 'none'.

 

Which program or which settings in DXTbmp should be used for best quality CFS3 textures with mipmaps and alpha channel?

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

I ever only did skins with DXTBmp - never any landscape mipmaps.

So I can only show you here, what I use for skins:

 

File type: DDS DXT1 (NoAlpha)

 

Mipmaps:

- Include when saving is checked

- Use 16 bit Dither is not checked

- Box

 

Scaling Filter: none

[itifonhom 6]

I use the Nvidia plugin for Photoshop, works great!

[vonOben 55]

Hi guys

 

I have no problem with blurriness if I save as dds without mipmaps.

 

Olham,

you are using the same settings as I've used.

Thanks!

 

itifonhom,

I've tried to find a compatible Nvidia DDS plug-in for PSP7, but the one that were supposed to work didn't work for me.

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

I asked Martin Wright the creator of DXTBmp about the problem and he said:

 

"It seems to be a common problem with mipmaps (in FS as well).

I have a feeling that the nVidia library I use doesn`t give the same results as microsofts own imagetool. Resaved textures seem to switch mimaps differently from the original and switch in the smaller (more blurred) mipmaps too early.

You could try experimenting with the different filter and scale settings but you may get the best results using imagetool. Or just do it without mipmaps."

 

Now I have spent quite some time converting to dds with these programs and testing in CFS3:

DXTBmp 4.00.82

DXTBmp 4.00.96

ImageTool CFS3 1.0.0.2

ImageTool FS2004 1.0.0.3

ImageTool FSX SP1 10.0.61355.0

ImageTool FSX SP2 10.0.61472.0

Gimp 2.6.11

Paint Net 3.5.8

Paint Shop Pro 7.02 Nvidia plugin 3.02

 

It’s only ImageTool 1.0.0.2 that makes terrain mipmaps as good as the original CFS3 terrain tiles, at least on my computer and I have an ATI videocard. It doesn’t matter if it’s dxt1 or dxt3 with or without alpha mask.

 

In these pictures you can clearly se the difference. The picture shows default CFS3 city terrain tile that has been resaved without changes:

 

Converted to dds with mipmaps using the Nvidia plugin

　

 

Converted to dds with mipmaps using ImageTool 1.0.0.2.

Cheers

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

Maybe I didn't get it, but: why should you want to convert terrain mipmaps?

[vonOben 55]

Hi Olham

 

Terrain tiles are the best way off checking the dds quality IMHO.

 

And I want the best possible result for the terrain edits I’m working on for the new seasons for JBsceneryV3 / ETO:

 

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?52159-Some-new-seasons-for-JBsceneryV3-ETO-preview

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

 

 

[Olham 164]

Been over at SOH, but can't get the pics without signing in.

 

Boy, I must be getting old - I hate all these shortages: what's JBsceberyV3 / ETO ???

 

 

[vonOben 55]

Hi Olham

 

We’re all getting older….

 

jbsceneryV3 is a CFS3 scenery by johno_UK that was released in 2008 and is also included in the CFS3-ETO download.

It only includes two seasons summer and winter and I’m editing it so will have more seasons.

 

Here’s one screen shot of spring that is not on the SOH server:

 

 

Cheers

 

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

Okay, now I got it. Do you still fly an CFS3 mods WW2 ?

[vonOben 55]

Okay, now I got it. Do you still fly an CFS3 mods WW2 ?

 

Hi Olham

 

I bought CFS3 only because of OFF, so I've never flown anything in CFS3 before.

After about a year in OFF I took a break and wanted to try CFS3-ETO flying WW2 aircraft.

 

Some more info from Martin Wright:

 

"I have a sneaking feeling that imagetool does something special with the mipmaps that is optimised for FS/CFS.

 

DXTBmp uses the nVidia DDS library to output textures. The Photoshop plugin uses the same libraries and I wouldn`t be surprised if the other programs also use code based on the nVidia library. I would expect all these methods to create very similar results

 

I remember using the commandline options in imagetool and there is a flag you can set to specify that the output is to be used for terrain. My guess is that it sets something in the file that tells FS/CFS to switch mipmaps at a greater distance than normal so making it look slightly sharper for longer. Its not that the image data is any better just that it holds on to the higher mipmaps for longer. In the same way that aircraft can be made to look sharper by removing the mipmaps (so forcing the use of the full image at all distances) delaying the switch to the next mipmap will extend the distance before terrain switches to a smaller (blurrier) mipmap.

On the other hand it is possible that the mipmap scaling algorithm used by imagetool is different to nVidia and creates mipmaps that are particularly optimised for terrain. The nVidia code is not FS-Specific as most games these days use DDS. There are options available in the plugin (and DXTBmp) to use different scaling algorithms and it may be worth experimenting with these to see if they make any difference in this situation.

 

Or just use imagetool (for the final output at least)."

 

The whole thread is here:

http://pub9.bravenet...753640&cmd=show

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Is it still possible to get CFS3-ETO?...if so, have you a link please?

[vonOben 55]

Is it still possible to get CFS3-ETO?...if so, have you a link please?

 

The CFS3-ETO Download is here:

 

http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/10-eto-pto-sim-outhouse/

 

Cheers

 

 

vonOben

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

The CFS3-ETO Download is here:

 

http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/10-eto-pto-sim-outhouse/

 

Cheers

 

 

vonOben

 

Many thanks m8