CF/RCAF squadron markings

[Sheriff001 397]

I am currently working on a Canadian Armed Forces F-4E Phantom, and am after some squadron markings. My "What-If" has Canada buying the F-4E in 1968 (I'll leave open the question of Vietnam) for both the NORAD and NATO roles, replacing the CF-101 and CF-104. The CF-4 (officially CF-110) would serve in the CAF until the mid-late 1990s, where upon it would be replaced with either the CF-18 (F/A-18C/D) or CF-15.

 

I currently have coloured and monochrome (suitable for black or grey for low visibility) squadron markings for the following CAF units:

 

• 409 Squadron
• 410 Squadron
• 416 Squadron
• 425e Escadron
• 439 Squadron
• 441 Squadron

I was wondering if anyone had suitable markings for:

 

• 414 Squadron
• 421 Squadron
• 422 Squadron
• 427 Squadron
• 434 Squadron

 

[Sabre103 2]

Great work! I saw the screenshots in the What-If thread and was meaning to reply. I've always liked the idea of a CF-4 and am very much looking forward to the release of this pack.

 

I'm afraid I don't have anything in the appropriate file format and the only images I have are too low-res in any case. Leading Edge Models does produce some good scale model decal sheets that might be a useful reference to work from for 414, 421 and 434. I don't know if that helps at all or not...

 

If you'll forgive one minor nitpick, though: The roundel should be on the upper side of both the left and right wings, with CAF under the lower right and the last three of serial under the lower left for "Symmetrical" era markings (ca. 1973-1983, though implementation of the new FIP era markings was sometimes slow -I'm only aware of one of the CF-18s that participated in Desert Storm having had FIP era markings-). The upper left/lower right roundel and upper right/lower left last three of serial came in with the "FIP" era markings. This link summarizes the development of post-WWII RCAF/CF markings quite nicely: http://www.canmilair.com/schemes.htm

Edited September 29, 2013 by Sabre103

[Sheriff001 397]

Thanks. I will work on firming up the national markings. I'll check out Leading Edge Models, and Can Mil Air.

 

Another question: is there a corporate signature for the Canadian Forces out there? I can find one for the DND. I am working on one myself. Hopefully Arial works as a font for it. I'll post it when done for critique.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sheriff001 397]

Corporate sign for the CF

 

 

[Sabre103 2]

You're welcome, sorry I couldn't offer anything more concrete...

 

Corporate sign for the CF

 

 

Looks good to me, the only thing I'd suggest is moving "Canadian Forces" and "Forces Canadiennes" a bit closer together. The gap between them should only be a tiny bit wider (sorry I can't be more precise than that) than the one between the flag and "Canadian Forces," which looks pretty well spot on there. Arial looks like a good match on the font, (according to Canadian Military Aircraft Finish and Markings 1968-2004 by Patrick Martin, the original font was Helvetica, so definitely close enough).

 

For what it's worth, according to the same source, the original "half flag" signature was used from 1984 with the introduction of FIP era markings, up until 1990. A minor point to note on that one was that, aside from the missing right bar on the flag, the leaf was 109% of the height of the bars (as opposed to 89% on the version of the signature with the full flag). The full flag version was introduced in 1990 and from 1999 the letters were made thicker (using bold would capture it just about right, judging by the diagrams). Having said that, going by my references, the half flag version has stuck around for a long time and there may well still be a few CF-18s and possibly other types that haven't been repainted with the newer version.

[Sheriff001 397]

You definitely have a good point on the speed with which new markings are introduced. Generally, that sort of thing won't be done unless the aircraft is going for a depot level service, or otherwise needs repainting.

[Sheriff001 397]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's starting to take final shape. I think I'll add some dayglo patches to the ADC Grey CF-4, for extra visibility over the Arctic, and I'll probably move the corporate signature, either above the arrester hook mark, or below the buzz number on the nose. I'm using the standard USAF ADC Grey, but I will also experiment with FS 16515 (Canadian Voodoo Grey)

Edited September 29, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sheriff001 397]

 

 

I think this is probably the best place for the corporate signature. I believe it is in that position on the CT-133.

 

 

Canadian Voodoo Grey

 

 

USAF ADC Grey

 

I think I prefer Canadian Voodoo Grey.

[Sabre103 2]

Looking great! Are you planning to include any camo NATO schemes prior to the low-viz grey in the package?

 

I hope you don't mind such nitpicking comments, but I did notice a couple more minor points I thought were worth mentioning even though it took me a while to notice them:

 

-The FIP era (current style with the Canada wordmark) markings would have just a plain roundel, not the roundel-ident with ARMED FORCES / FORCES ARMEES on either side (the signature takes the place of these titles on the FIP scheme).

 

-The early CAF style markings with English titling on the left and French on the right wouldn't have the last-three of serial on the nose, since it's next to the roundel opposite the "CAF".

 

-Finally, the half-flag on the signature would probably be red on an aircraft with full-colour markings (though there are enough small exceptions to the rules of CF aircraft markings that I'd consider the all-black version plausible: e.g. SAR CH-146 Griffons have red lettering for the Canada wordmark and the flag was left off of the wordmark on tactical camo Griffons and maybe one or two schemes other schemes, so a Phantom with an all-black signature on full colour markings fits well enough).

 

I agree that the signature between the intake and leading edge wing root looks best. As far as I can tell there's no real "rule" as to its position, just whatever looks best for the airframe and not too near the roundel. It's near the tail on the CF-18, but then the Hornet has the roundel on the forward fuselage in a position that would look rather strange on a Phantom (at least to my mind, and even allowing for some approximation since the exact same position would probably put it on the F-4's splitter plate).

 

Also agree about the Voodoo Grey - before you posted the screenshots I'd been about to say the ADC Gray was close enough but it does have a different look to it and it fits the scheme well.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Sabre103

[Sheriff001 397]

 

-The early CAF style markings with English titling on the left and French on the right wouldn't have the last-three of serial on the nose, since it's next to the roundel opposite the "CAF".

That is certainly true for the CF-101, CF-5, and CF-104, which had their roundels on the forward fuselage, however on aircraft with their roundels on the aft fuselage, the last-three of serial were repeated on the nose. The CT-133 is an example of this.

 

I'll be using the Euro 1 scheme for NATO, in symmetrical and FIP formats. For symmetrical, I'll have the roundel and flag without white (as on the CF-104). FIP, the roundel, Canada workmark, and flag will be in black. All of this is ready to go on the templates, I simply have to export them to BMP.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sabre103 2]

That is certainly true for the CF-101, CF-5, and CF-104, which had their roundels on the forward fuselage, however on aircraft with their roundels on the aft fuselage, the last-three of serial were repeated on the nose. The CT-133 is an example of this.

 

I'll be using the Euro 1 scheme for NATO, in symmetrical and FIP formats. For symmetrical, I'll have the roundel and flag without white (as on the CF-104). FIP, the roundel, Canada workmark, and flag will be in black. All of this is ready to go on the templates, I simply have to export them to BMP.

 

Right you are, I do apologize...  I'm used to the fighter schemes to the point that it looked wrong when I noticed it -which took a while- and didn't bother to check references (even the one I just linked above, d'oh!). Live and learn...

 

Awesome. I saw your CR-110 screenshots in the What-If screenshots thread, they look great...I really like the look of the Euro 1 scheme with CF markings, especially on a Phantom. As a side note, I remember the earlier version of Patrick Martin's book had brief details of a three-tone wraparound scheme that was proposed but never adopted for the NATO-assigned CF-18s in the late 80s when FIP markings were being introduced which, IIRC, looked very similar to Euro 1.

[Sheriff001 397]

Just an aside, here's a link I found that discusses the entire history of RCAF roundels: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/382/language/en-CA/Roundel-Round-Up.aspx

The early aircraft are effectively completed. The orange patches are USAF specification Arctic markings for the F-4. The hard part of getting the decals.ini right to position the last-three of serial on the wing. I may end up putting in a small clear patch around the squadron badge. The problem is that they are all slightly different in size. I'll see what I can devise. Here's the complete Canadian Voodoo Grey CF-4E:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sabre103 2]

Great stuff! That is a beautiful sight...thank you for making it happen.

[Sheriff001 397]

421 Squadron - Red Indians:

 

421 Squadron was a CF-104, and later CF-18 squadron based at CFB Baden-Soellingen, Germany.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheriff001 397]

For skins, I am going to have the following arrangement:

 

NORAD: Canadian Voodoo Grey, Hill Grey

NATO: SEA, Euro 1, Hill Grey

 

For the NORAD Hill Grey aircraft, I may use the arctic patches that I am using on Canadian Voodoo Grey (though this will make them look like QF-4Es). The reason I am using SEA is that it is the standard F-4E camouflage, and SEA was used by USAFE on several types.

 

Using ravenclaw007's F-4E, there are several eras. They, and the marking schemes to be used are as follows:

F-4E: CAF

F-4E_72: CAF, Symmetrical

F-4E_72_MIDAS: Symmetrical (all repainted during the MIDAS modification)

F-4E_75: Symmetrical

F-4E_78: Symmetrical

F-4E_79: Symmetrical, FIP

F-4E_86: FIP

[Sheriff001 397]

The early CF-4E is done. Two colour shemes, SEA for NATO and Canadian Voodoo Grey for NORAD. The Canadian Voodoo Grey scheme depicts 409 Squadron, a CF-18 (and former CF-101) squadron from CFB Cold Lake, AB. 410, 416, and 425 are also in Canadian Voodoo Grey. The SEA scheme depicts 439 Squadron, a F-104 Squadron at CFB Lahr and then CFB Baden-Soellingen, and now a CH-146 Squadron at CFB Bagotville, QC.

 

I've managed to find insignia for 414 Squadron, but will probably not use it unless I get around to doing a CF-4G (that is a matter is finishing what I have in progress now, and getting/converting F-4G templates). Unfortunately, the internet provides slim pickings for 422, 427, 430, 433, and 434 Squadrons. I have also found very little in picking pieces of insignia from the downloads area here. I've grabbed all the Canadair Sabres, CF-5, CF-104, CF-18 skins and aircraft I can find, yet there is little that would seem to work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabre103 2]

Really nice work, looking forward to seeing the rest.

 

The SEA markings look great. Makes perfect sense, especially if the backstory assumes McDonnell-Douglas built aircraft without any kind of license production, all the more so if some were taken out of USAF stocks second-hand...

 

As for arctic patches on the Hill Grey, if I may put in the proverbial 2 cents, for whatever it's worth...the CF-18 fleet has handled the NORAD role for 30 years in a very similar scheme without ever receiving arctic rescue markings, and the CF-101 fleet often went without them in the old Voodoo Grey scheme. That being said, they do look awesome on that early CF-4 scheme...

 

Really like the idea of 414 as an F-4G unit.

 

Would 419 Moose work as an alternative to some of the other squadrons you couldn't find insignia for? They were a CF-100 squadron in the 50s and re-formed on CF-5s from the late 60s up to '95 and are now a CT-155 Hawk lead-in fighter training squadron...they'd be a pretty plausible operator for the CF-4.

 

The problem I've found looking for 434 insignia is that every fast jet they operated (Sabre, CF-5, T-33) had the tailband style of insignia, which doesn't fit with the CF-101 / CF-104-stlye presentation on your schemes...and unlike the other squadrons their flightsuit patch doesn't really look like what went on the aircraft. Maybe some variation on this flash could be of some use? I don't know...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Sabre103

[Sheriff001 397]

Controversially, Europe-based CF-4Es retained their nuclear strike role. 421 Squadron is making the Cold War very hot (about a million degrees). The NORAD CF-4s won't carry nuclear weapons, however I will put AIM-4s in specially labelled loadouts until about 1977-80.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sheriff001 397]

I've worked out my scheme for loadouts. The air-to-ground load outs will be subtly changed to favour Canadian weapons (BL-755, CRV-7). Although the centreline pylon will have NUC added, and several nuclear weapons have been "exported" (in fact, shared under the NATO nuclear sharing agreement), a nuclear strike loadout won't be provided. The reason for this is yield changes, I have made several copies of my nuclear bombs to accomodate yield selection.

 

Air to air load outs will be labelled "NATO" or "NORAD" for all aircraft including the F-4E_72. There are two differences between a NATO air to air load out and a NORAD air to air load out. Firstly, the NATO load out will use AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, while NORAD will use AIM-4 Falcons. Secondly, the NORAD load out will have four AIM-7 with no jammer, while the NATO load out will have three AIM-7 plus jammer in the port-forward Sparrow recess. The first difference is justified by the previous use of the AIM-4 on the CF-101. If the missiles are available, they may as well be used. I have selected the AIM-4D as it has the best model and textures of the AIM-4 series on SF2. I think this is slightly incorrect historically, I believe that the CF-101 used the AIM-4F and AIM-4G. If improved textures and models for the AIM-4G come along, I will make the adaptations. NORAD aircraft will not use the AIR-2 Genie. The reason for this is the provision of the AIM-7 Sparrow. The capability of the AIM-7 far outstrip the AIR-2 (though the AIR-2 does put on a better show!), and I can find no reference to the F-4 carrying the AIR-2 Genie. This would also be a political positive for the Canadian Government, as it would allow the removal of nuclear weapons from Canadian soil (though nuclear weapons, as stated above, would still be available on Canadian Forces Bases in Europe).

 

The AIM-9 is more common in Europe, and better suited to the European battlefield. If IR AAMs are available in any air to ground load outs, the AIM-9 will be the missile used.

 

For the F-4E_75, the standard IR AAM will be the AIM-9J. For the F-4E_78 onwards, the AIM-9L and AIM-9M will be used.

 

Here is a CF-4 of 409 Squadron showing the NORAD loadout.

 

N.B. This post has been corrected to account for the fact that the F-4E_75 does not have AIM-4 capability.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2013 by Sheriff001

[Sheriff001 397]

Here is a possible set of badges for 427 Squadron. I grabbed it out of a Squadron Signal book on the F-86, and touched it up. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheriff001 397]

It is basically done. All that's left is to populate the aircraft with skins, check that everything works, do a little test flying, package and upload. I've decided to put 430, 433, 434, and 444 Squadrons on the back-burner until some better material emerges. I will therefore have the following squadrons:

 

• NATO
  • 421 Squadron
  • 422 Squadron
  • 427 Squadron
  • 439 Squadron
  • 441 Squadron
• NORAD
  • 409 Squadron
  • 410 Squadron
  • 416 Squadron
  • 425e Escadron

 

Loadouts for all but the earliest aircraft will include hard and soft options for CAS and SEAD. "Hard" loadouts will use the AGM-65, while "soft" loadouts will use the BL755 CBU. I recommend against using BL755 on an MER, as the BL755 is too long to fit. The Mk.20 Rockeye will be the CBU specified before 1972.

Here are sample hangar and loading screens:

 

 

 

 

[Sabre103 2]

Just downloaded the packs last week when they came out, and they are fantastic. Great work, Sheriff! Thanks!

[Sheriff001 397]

You're very welcome!