BOB version 0.6

[+Brainless 1]

Firstly let me say again this is a superb addition and campaign. One of the best in my view. Thanks again to all the team for creating this marrvellous piece of entertainment and for the wonderfull scenery file.

 

Here's a pic of some rather strange Heinkel behaviour. It seems they just won't be desrtoyed in the air or on the ground!!

 

The bomber travels for miles likes this with nose in the ground and tail in the air doing a 'dance'

 

Don't know how you fix this!

 

[+Baltika 85]

Hi Brainless,

 

Yes, I've seen this behaviour. There was a discussion on the destructability of bombers on the main BoB feedback thread, although, fair enough, it's getting a bit unwieldy to find what you want easily.

 

To summarise:-

 

If you look in the [aircraft]_data.ini for say the He-111H2, you'll see that the StructuralFactor= flag in each component part of the plane is set at values like 5.5 or 6.5. Those values are even higher for the Ju-88. That variable is a multiplier of the "hit points" each component has, so a value of 5 means it's 5 times stronger that a component with a value of 1. The Luftwaffe bombers are very strong structurally. They also have self-sealing fuel tanks, with fire suppression, and a lot of armour. You will see all these variables set in the _data.ini for each plane.

 

The upshot of this is that the bombers are damn hard to destroy without cannon fire. The early Spitfires and Hurricanes were not cannon-armed, so the bombers soak up a lot of damage from your 8 .303 Brownings. This is a fairly well-debated subject, but I have read enough accounts of bombers making it back to base with hundreds of bullet holes in them to reach the view that the bombers are as tough as they ought to be in the BoB campaign.

 

Try downloading a Spit 2b and taking it for a whirl on an SP intercept mission. Watch what a difference cannon fire makes to the bombers.

 

I have included 151 Sqdn RAF as a playable because of documented accounts of that squadron experimenting with cannon-armed Hurricanes. As you progress through the campaign you will get to try out a Hurri 2B (12x Brownings) and Hurri 2C (4x Hispano Cannon). This is veering close to arcade-style weapons upgrades and is a mite unhistorical, but it is intended to be fun, and to overcome the frustration factor caused by the difficulty of downing bombers. It also rewards the player for surviving through the campaign

 

You have B Bandy RFC to thank for 151 Sqdn as presently set up - cheers Bandy

 

19 Sqdn experimented with cannon-armed Spits much earlier in BoB, but they proved so unreliable they asked for their Browning armed Spits back.

 

Of course, feel free to tweak the bomber _data.inis if you wish. Capun has posted instructions early in the BoB feedback thread on how to alter settings for the gunners - see post #6 on page 1.

 

I have experimented with adding hitboxes (MinExtentPosition= and MaxExtentPosition= values) to both the engines and engine nacelles (I forget which component doesn't have them, just cut & paste the values from the relevant engine to the matching nacelle, or vice-versa).

 

In the end of the day, the RAF found it hard to knock down bombers. It's pretty tough in the BoB campaign, but I think that is as it should be. With practice you can get results - and thanks for your tips on how to do it you posted in the other thread.

 

Of course, you could always remove the self-sealing tanks and fire suppression from the bombers, but wouldn't that be cheating

 

Happy hunting,

 

baltika

Edited September 19, 2007 by Baltika

[+Brainless 1]

Hi Brainless,

 

Yes, I've seen this behaviour. There was a discussion on the destructability of bombers on the main BoB feedback thread, although, fair enough, it's getting a bit unwieldy to find what you want easily.

 

To summarise:-

 

If you look in the [aircraft]_data.ini for say the He-111H2, you'll see that the StructuralFactor= flag in each component part of the plane is set at values like 5.5 or 6.5. Those values are even higher for the Ju-88. That variable is a multiplier of the "hit points" each component has, so a value of 5 means it's 5 times stronger that a component with a value of 1. The Luftwaffe bombers are very strong structurally. They also have self-sealing fuel tanks, with fire suppression, and a lot of armour. You will see all these variables set in the _data.ini for each plane.

 

The upshot of this is that the bombers are damn hard to destroy without cannon fire. The early Spitfires and Hurricanes were not cannon-armed, so the bombers soak up a lot of damage from your 8 .303 Brownings. This is a fairly well-debated subject, but I have read enough accounts of bombers making it back to base with hundreds of bullet holes in them to reach the view that the bombers are as tough as they ought to be in the BoB campaign.

 

Try downloading a Spit 2b and taking it for a whirl on an SP intercept mission. Watch what a difference cannon fire makes to the bombers.

 

I have included 151 Sqdn RAF as a playable because of documented accounts of that squadron experimenting with cannon-armed Hurricanes. As you progress through the campaign you will get to try out a Hurri 2B (12x Brownings) and Hurri 2C (4x Hispano Cannon). This is veering close to arcade-style weapons upgrades and is a mite unhistorical, but it is intended to be fun, and to overcome the frustration factor caused by the difficulty of downing bombers. It also rewards the player for surviving through the campaign

 

You have B Bandy RFC to thank for 151 Sqdn as presently set up - cheers Bandy

 

19 Sqdn experimented with cannon-armed Spits much earlier in BoB, but they proved so unreliable they asked for their Browning armed Spits back.

 

Of course, feel free to tweak the bomber _data.inis if you wish. Capun has posted instructions early in the BoB feedback thread on how to alter settings for the gunners - see post #6 on page 1.

 

I have experimented with adding hitboxes (MinExtentPosition= and MaxExtentPosition= values) to both the engines and engine nacelles (I forget which component doesn't have them, just cut & paste the values from the relevant engine to the matching nacelle, or vice-versa).

 

In the end of the day, the RAF found it hard to knock down bombers. It's pretty tough in the BoB campaign, but I think that is as it should be. With practice you can get results - and thanks for your tips on how to do it you posted in the other thread.

 

Of course, you could always remove the self-sealing tanks and fire suppression from the bombers, but wouldn't that be cheating

 

Happy hunting,

 

baltika

 

Thanks for the info and yes I know that with cannons you can knock out the bombers. I downed the entire 12 No. bomber flight using the Hurricane2C yesterday in a single mission using my 'underbelly' attack method previously described.

 

I think you are probably right with the values set in the campaign and I don't intend to change them. I've knocked out two Heinkels in the 'hard' ammunition setting. It would be nice if when the bombers did hit the ground they exploded and didn't drift along the ground tail up. They don't all do this admittedly so I guess this will have to be an 'accepted' behaviour when it does happen for now at any rate. The biggest problem is the AI's inability to do anything very much but then again this is probably not that far away from reality.

 

Great campaign. I just love. Please keep tweaking and upgrading it's all well worth it.