Another confused newbie about the mods and patches

[Dagaith 0]

Hi, I am quite new to the game and have some questions regarding mods.

 

I have read and understood that peter01's FM-s are of finest quality and thus a must for a realistic game. Also, there seems to be a problem with EP and April patch. I have EP installed and I don't know whether to install the patch or not: the FM-s and the addon planes are not compatible with the patch I've read (Bite sized chunks topic).

 

So what should I do?

 

Also, in the download section, all the flight models and planes are from the pre-patch time (and even pre-EP), the latest file submitted is the Fokker E.IV pack in February, so... the new patch is generally not used or supported? The peter01's FM-s there are also from pre-EP time (Alternative Late War Plane FMs NOT for Expansion Pack is the latest file).

Have I missed something? I couldn't even find the pre-patch (but EP supported) peter01's FM, that he talked about in the "Bite sized chunks" topic anywhere. Help?:)

[guitarclassic55 0]

Hi, I am quite new to the game and have some questions regarding mods.

 

I have read and understood that peter01's FM-s are of finest quality and thus a must for a realistic game. Also, there seems to be a problem with EP and April patch. I have EP installed and I don't know whether to install the patch or not: the FM-s and the addon planes are not compatible with the patch I've read (Bite sized chunks topic).

 

So what should I do?

 

Also, in the download section, all the flight models and planes are from the pre-patch time (and even pre-EP), the latest file submitted is the Fokker E.IV pack in February, so... the new patch is generally not used or supported? The peter01's FM-s there are also from pre-EP time (Alternative Late War Plane FMs NOT for Expansion Pack is the latest file).

Have I missed something? I couldn't even find the pre-patch (but EP supported) peter01's FM, that he talked about in the "Bite sized chunks" topic anywhere. Help?:)

 

Hi and welcome,

 

I'm probably not the best person to answer your question, but since it's Saturday morning and no one else is around, I'll tell you what I know. It is a bit confusing, the different possibilities with FE:

 

Original FE with only stock planes

Original FE with added custom planes and some INI tweaking

Original FE with added custom planes and the FIRST PATCH (which fixed a lot of things that made the INI tweaking necessary)

FE with Expansion Pack (includes the first patch changes)

FE with EP and April 2008 patch

FE without EP and April 2008 patch

 

On top of that there are custom FMs for the custom planes PRE-EP and post-EP, and custom FMs for the stock planes pre- and post-EP, most notably the ones by peter01. The post-EP ones by peter01 were being raved about but after the April 2008 patch came out they didn't work as well so peter01 pulled them from the download section (I believe).

 

I wish I could give you more direction and more information... I know that several people have multiple installs of FE: one original FE for early-war planes, and one or more other installs for later planes,usually incorporating the EP and/or latest patches. Personally, I fly the EP with the April 2008 patch. I also fly the custom planes with peter01's pre-EP FMs... I'm sure he's probably cringing reading this... because the planes probably don't feel like they should, or perform the way they should since TK (the designer/programmer of Thirdwire series) changed things FM-related with the EP and again with the April 2008 patch. Nevertheless, I fly them that way. I also like flying in campaign mode. Firecage has a great all-inclusive start-to-finish campaign called planefest that uses many of the custom planes. I haven't tried it since the April 2008 patch so I can't say for certain that it will work. I'm currently flying the Bloody April 1917 campaign by Charles (I think...) and it is excellent given the limitations of the campaign system.

 

It took a while to get all the planes together for Firecage's campaign... some need to be downloaded from Capun's site after you register there, if you haven't already they are well worth the effort. [There's another thread on the subject from the not too distant past.] Lots of great talent here with many excellent contributions... but it's not exactly pulled together in neat and tidy order. Good luck and happy flying! Hopefully others will chime in and clarify the things I've left murky...

 

Guitarclassic55

[Dagaith 0]

Thanks for the thorough and helpful post.

 

I guess I'll have to wait then, until someone (peter01?:)) makes the FM's for the EP+April patch. Meanwhile I'll install FE without EP and the April patch (v02.19.07 then?) and try out some addon planes and peter01's FMs.

 

Anyway, thanks again for clearing out things.

[Dagaith 0]

Yes, I'm downloading Capun's planes at the moment :)

 

But I'm a bit concerned about the FMs of add-on planes as they were made by different people and thus have different standards. Hypothetically there could be a situation where the standard Albatros D.III and OAW made one had different flight characteristics because different people made the FMs (the only noticeable difference was the strengthened lower wing, if I'm not mistaking?) or something, you get the idea. I'm not telling that someones FMs are better or worse, but they are different. Which is why I try to use the FMs made by one person - peter01. Too bad that I've got only his pre-EP FMs :/

 

Another question is about the damage model: has anyone modded it somehow? Right now I'm flying with hard settings but I still manage to land in obscure positions and not getting damaged etc.

 

And I guess it's impossible to enable collision with trees?:D

[Firecage 1]

Hello there and welcome to the game.

 

 

Yes, I'm downloading Capun's planes at the moment :)

 

But I'm a bit concerned about the FMs of add-on planes as they were made by different people and thus have different standards. Hypothetically there could be a situation where the standard Albatros D.III and OAW made one had different flight characteristics because different people made the FMs (the only noticeable difference was the strengthened lower wing, if I'm not mistaking?) or something, you get the idea. I'm not telling that someones FMs are better or worse, but they are different. Which is why I try to use the FMs made by one person - peter01. Too bad that I've got only his pre-EP FMs :/

 

The fast answer to the 1st question is yes.... The way I try and view it is to use all the planes I can, even the same plane from different designers. I think this gives me a way to kind of simulate the fact that some squads had more problems keeping their aircraft in top performance so their pilots had a worse time than others. Some squads didn't get the parts they need and they had to improvise... and so forth.

 

So I am in the process of getting the newest campaign finished and I am trying to get Ateams Albs and TKs albs along with peter01's FM set. I am doing this in the chance that even though some planes are not as easy to fly as others of the same model. SO far its working better than I thought. Peter has done some downright amazing work for us here as well as many other mod. people. So the fact that many of us have 3-5 seperate installs of FE so we can jump around to diferent versions of the game. Not the most liked idea at all but its worth doing IMHO.

 

Another question is about the damage model: has anyone modded it somehow? Right now I'm flying with hard settings but I still manage to land in obscure positions and not getting damaged etc.

 

Damage models are a sore spot for alot of us right now. shooting a plane and seeing it explode like a LARs rocket hit it is a bit too much... I mean I want to see my enemies in flames but It needs to be harder. Now what alot of us have done is go in plane by plane and add armor to alot of the parts of each and every plane to suit your needs. Its time consuming but well worth the effort. THere are posts here in this forum on how to add armor to a plane area, including fuel tanks, engines, pilots, etc..

 

And I guess it's impossible to enable collision with trees?:D

 

Well at least its not like IL2 where only certain KINDS of trees will kill you

 

TK has made alot of improvments on ground collisions. At 1st you could submarine a good 40 ' under the ground and not blow up

 

 

As a final thought I play mostly the April patch on the EXP pack, With Peters FMs in most planes. I find it a ton of fun once you get alot of paint schemes going in a campaign so you always running into special paint on a plane and you know its and ace AI which is fun as hell.

 

THis forum is chocked full of info on how and what to change once your familiar with the ini files in the game.

 

(edit) I I trying to get a beta release of Verdun Planefest out soon and it will have a mix of almost every mid-late war planes that are out and will work with the FM. The planes sets will be scattered so you wont know what planes each squad may get so its a real war time problem that I think we can simulate. Also I am going to try and get permission to load one huge file (or sets) that well be the fest + many add on packs for terrains and ground vehicles and maybe even paint sets. When im done I will get all involved permission to add the parts but for the most part I dont see much trouble since Im not breaking anyone requests of distribution notes. I have most of the planes modded with armor ratings that make it alot harder to get the easy kills but I dont know of any way to release that in a package with out viloating some distro requests.

 

But I will get what I can get permission for as I finish.

 

Edited June 8, 2008 by Firecage

[Dagaith 0]

Whoa, now that was a really nice and long reply. Thanks.

I kinda like your idea of the different FMs in connection with different squadrons etc. Really, haven't thought about it like that.

 

And I guess I'll have to try out and mod the damage models and other things.

And a relevant question: Right now I see three ways making the planes 'harder'

1. Adding armor to the parts of plane

2. Reducing the weight of bullets in Gundata.ini

3. Increasing the VolumeStructurePoint in Aircraftobject.ini

 

Are there any different outcomes when I choose one of the three ways? I guess the first one is the most versatile as I can change individual parts but is that the only difference?

[Firecage 1]

Whoa, now that was a really nice and long reply. Thanks.

I kinda like your idea of the different FMs in connection with different squadrons etc. Really, haven't thought about it like that.

 

And I guess I'll have to try out and mod the damage models and other things.

And a relevant question: Right now I see three ways making the planes 'harder'

1. Adding armor to the parts of plane

2. Reducing the weight of bullets in Gundata.ini

3. Increasing the VolumeStructurePoint in Aircraftobject.ini

 

any different outcomes when I choose one of the three ways? I guess the first one is the most versatile as I can change individual parts but is that the only difference?

 

Yup, as with most any open (or close to open) source game the ideas are endless. That's becoming a double edge sword lately.

 

As for your question

 

1. Adding armor to the parts of plane (one of the easy ways since you can cut and paste pretty easy and get this going)

2. Reducing the weight of bullets in Gundata.ini (there is an editor you can download here at CA to mod the weapons and such)

3. Increasing the VolumeStructurePoint in Aircraftobject.ini (more intensive I would think but I haven't tried that approach... might work better)

[+Tailspin 3]

One more way to increase the resistance to gunfire of various components is to add the StructuralFactor= line in the A/C data.inis. A value of 2.0 doubles the required hit points, 3.0 triples, etc. I have added a StructuralFactor=2.0 to all the TopWingLeft and TopWingRight sections. This greatly reduces blowing off the entire top wing with a short burst or a lucky snap shot.

 

I've also been experimenting with G limits for components by adding MaxG= . Preliminary tests look promising. The neat thing about G limits is that we already have an audible warning system in place. The airframe "creaking" sound is G induced. It begins at approx. 4.0 Gs and increases in volume to about 4.9 Gs. I have started with limits at 5.0 Gs which doesn't affect combat maneuvers but requires you watch your dive speed and how aggressively you pull out of a dive at higher speeds. Looks like breakage is not caused precisely at the G limit but requires a certain amount of sustained G load at or above the limit. Again this is related to airspeed. The faster you go the more sustained Gs you can pull in a turn or when climbing out before loss of airspeed reduces momentum and the G load. I hope to find the "magic number" that will cause breakage during the most extreme combat maneuvers without compromising diving ability too much. Unfortunately I haven't had much time in RL lately to do much testing.

 

BTW...I'm flying FE+EP+Apr.08 patch.

[Dagaith 0]

I'll try out the StructuralFactor thing, sounds neat.

 

And it would be superb if you figure out the G limit, because right now I can make some ridiculous dives and come out undamaged in a split second. I would like to have my Albatros lose the lower wing in a critical situation

It should be harder to control the machine too with high G-s, I suppose.

 

 

BTW: No way to use my own aircraft skin in MP Co-op? And is it possible to modify somehow the co-op mission generation? I mean, there should be a file somewhere that has written how the mission is generated - how many planes in a flight, their distance to each other etc.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Dagaith

[+Tailspin 3]

It already works pretty good for diving. You can try it out by just adding the line:

 

MaxG=5.0

 

to whatever component you want in the A/C data.ini (ie. Upper/Lower MidWingLeft/Right, WingTip etc.) Take her up, dive fast, yank back the stick and see what happens.

 

BTW.....There is an excellent sound mod done by ShrikeHawk that is great for this effect. In fact it is my standard "component detach" sound for FE.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=4934

 

Don't forget the updated version too. You will need the original to install the update.

 

Ps...sorry, I don't know much about online play. Someone else will likely know though.

[Dagaith 0]

Blah, I'm unable to get the MaxG thing working. I've tried with different settings (MaxG=1.0 to 6.0) and for many different parts (all being wings though) and not once I managed to break my bird :/

 

Btw, what does that MaxG under the [FlightControl] section do? I tried to play with this too but ineffectively.

[+Tailspin 3]

Hmmm....works for me in both EP and EP + Patch versions. Don't know if MaxG can be applied universally via. the Flight Control section...haven't tried it.