Ace vs. Ace

[thewoo1 0]

I see most us have read many books on the Great war...Off the top of your head what were some great fights among the aces... Hawker and MVR ..comes to my mind .. LVR is credited with downing Ball ( some doubt among historians)

[OvS 8]

I see most us have read many books on the Great war...Off the top of your head what were some great fights among the aces... Hawker and MVR ..comes to my mind .. LVR is credited with downing Ball ( some doubt among historians)

 

Collishaw waxed Allmenröder

Rhys-Davids was credited with Voss

[JimAttrill 24]

There is a lot of doubt about Ball, because he just disappeared. So did Guynemer for that matter.

McCudden killed himself turning back on engine failure and Mannock was killed by ground fire.

[Tonyo - legion 2]

Theres an excellent Book which I've just started reading called Who Downed the Aces in WW1? by Norman Franks.

 

One notable air combat is the one in which Oberleutnant Stefan Kirmaier who took over the command of Jasta 2 after boelckes demise was shot down by capt John Oliver Andrews flying a DH2 of 42 sdn.

 

It was the day after this, that 24 sdn lost their leader Lanoe Hawker to MvR. (his 11th victory)

[Olham 164]

Jim Attrill: There is a lot of doubt about Ball, because he just disappeared. So did Guynemer for that matter.

 

Did nobody find the craft and bodies of these two aces until this very day? What a spooky thought...

So, they must be in the ground or at the bottom of a lake, or in a swamp, there somewhere, still?

Edited September 7, 2009 by Olham

[Dej 17]

If you go to the Aces section of that excellent resource The Aerodrome at www.theaerodrome.com and navigate to ace's page (by name, by nation, by cemetery or whatever) you will find the names of any enemy aces downed, directly above your subject ace's list of victories, along with which number victory the enemy ace was, e.g. for the example of J. O. Andrews click here

 

Interestingly, Allmenroeder is not so listed on Collishaw's page, probably because it's not certain whether it was Collishaw or another of the Black Flight... it was a 'hit and run attack', after all.

 

Olham, Albert Ball only 'disappeared' from view of his flight. He was wont go go off on his own anyway. His SE5 was seen by a german officer on the ground coming inverted out of a cloud, with a dead prop, shortly before crashing. His body was recovered by the Germans and buried. Ball's father later bought the land where his son crashed and set up two stones, marking the nose and tail of the crashed SE. Only one remains and it's not know which end. Check the info here. The only mystery is why he crashed, as he was not wounded. 'Disorientation in cloud' is the likeliest cause.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Dej

[Olham 164]

Hmm- thank you, Dej. Disorientation - but why the standing prop? Well, he could have switched the

engine off, to sail the plane. The craft would have "found it's orientation" without the engine, maybe.

 

I checked some aces at the Aerodrome.

So we can see there, that Erich Loewenhardt had 54 victories, but no ace downed,

whereas Karl Allmenroeder had 30 victories, but downed aces Alan Scott (Australia)

and Gerald Nash (Canada).

To compare them all, would lead to a drawn zigzag line of who-shot-whom, it seems.

[kaa 0]

Hmm- thank you, Dej. Disorientation - but why the standing prop? Well, he could have switched the

engine off, to sail the plane. The craft would have "found it's orientation" without the engine, maybe.

 

I checked some aces at the Aerodrome.

So we can see there, that Erich Loewenhardt had 54 victories, but no ace downed,

whereas Karl Allmenroeder had 30 victories, but downed aces Alan Scott (Australia)

and Gerald Nash (Canada).

To compare them all, would lead to a drawn zigzag line of who-shot-whom, it seems.

 

Hi, Guynemer disappeared from the view of his "wingman", in a cloudy sky of sept. 1917...many different versions of his death (shot down by a biplace rear gunner, Wissemann/Wissermann)...maybe hastily buried by German ground troops in an area under heavy shelling some days later...

[Olham 164]

I wonder, if his remains will perhaps be found one day. What a sad fate...

[Dej 17]

I wonder, if his remains will perhaps be found one day. What a sad fate...

 

One of the most heart-gripping aspects of WW1 for me is those whose graves are unknown. 54,000 allied on the Menin Gate alone and that's one of four such, I think. I confess, to my shame, that I don't know how the unknown German losses are commemorated, but for so many to just 'disappear' save for a name is truly tragic.