+quack74 329 Posted September 13, 2009 I'm working on eight Fokker DVII's of Jasta 18. Since the stock Jasta 18 DVII was marked like Ltn Raben (all red fuselage) I thought I'd fix it for everyone. While I was at it I figured I'll do the known skins. But there is one DVII that is supposed to have a black and white striped tail. The same style as Jasta 6 aircraft, Straight lines parallel with the fuselage. If anyone has any info please let me know. See the pics below. There are a few with tail markings already and one is Ltn Raben's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saltfiskur 2 Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) There were actually quite a variety of horizontal stabilizer designs, I think almost every plane had a different one. Which ones do you have already? I'll try to PM you some pics- I'm excited for these! Jasta 18 D.VII's are some of my favorites! Saltfiskur Edited September 14, 2009 by Saltfiskur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 14, 2009 ...But there is one DVII that is supposed to have a black and white striped tail. The same style as Jasta 6 aircraft, Straight lines parallel with the fuselage. If anyone has any info please let me know... Hi Quack. Regarding the Jasta 6 type striping: I've had a look through a couple of books, and the only Jasta 18 D.VII photo I can find with black 'n white parallel striping on the stabilizer is one you've already done: The one with the three pointed star...Aircraft No.2 in your top right screenshot. What reference did you use for that plane? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 14, 2009 Thanks for helping out bucky. The one with the three pointed star i believe belonged to Ltn. Kustner. And I did the tail with a diagonal black and white striping. Is this wrong? Should the tail be staight blk and wht stripes? I also read that Jasta 18 had captured a DH4 and a SPAD and had them repaired for use. They were reported to have been painted in Jasta 18 red and white with the "Raven" on the fuselage. I'm working on a jasta 18 DH4. Looks very cool flying with DVII's as escort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 14, 2009 Man, that was close! I was about to say those stripes should definitely be straight, but then I had one last look through the book I was referring to ('Fleigertruppe 1914-1918, Nr.2', by A.E.Ferko), and I found a postage stamp sized photo of the plane in question... The stripes were exactly as you have 'em! There's another, quite poor quality photo of the same a/c in the book, taken from some distance, and you'd swear those stripes were straight! Saves you a bit of work, eh? While I'm here, you might like to have a look at this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/190230490X/sr=1-9/qid=1252971871/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books&qid=1252971871&sr=1-9 I have to say, I've never seen a photo of it, but on the inside cover of that book, it states: "Cover painting by Barry Weekly: Ltn Kurt Monnington of Jasta 18 intercepting DH9's of 104 Squadron on 23rd October 1918." Another beautiful set you've created there, by the way! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saltfiskur 2 Posted September 15, 2009 Bucky, I think they have the same photo your referring to in the Windsock D.VII Anthology 1, there's a page wide view, and it's still tough to see, but I think Quack's got it right on the money! That book cover might solve the mystery of the J18 D.Va I uploaded yesterday, can't believe I didn't make the connection of the skull similarity of Monnington's J15 machine before the Berthold squadron exchange. Think it's safe to say the D.Va is his too? Can't say I've ever seen a photo to the D.VII either, but the D.Va is in the Windsock Dr.I special on page 22, right behind Ltn. Raben's planes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks bucky . Good I dont have to do that one over. Those DVII tail planes are in eight different pieces on four templates. It's a bitch to do. That Kurt Monnington looks cool. I'll have to do that one for sure. He had an Albatros DVa that looked the same back in the spring of '18 along side Raben's Dr.1. Awhile ago I posted some Dr.1's of Jasta 18 before I knew there was only one, Raben's. But searching theaerodrome.com's forums there was a thread a few years back stirring up the possibility of there being a second Dr.1 that was involved in a ballon attack. It was reported as being shot down. As we all know now Raben's Dr.1's fuselage was three quarters red with a white raven and a white tail. There are a few pictures of this plane around. But, I've noticed, in Paul Leaman's "Fokker Dr.1 Triplane" on page 174 top left there is a photo of Ltn. Hans Kunster of Jasta 18 in a Dr.1. The Dr.1 clearly has the markings of a Jasta 18, red to the rear of the cockpit and white aft with the wing tip of a black raven on the fuselage sides. Now, this clearly isn't Raben's Dr.1. And if it was Raben's, why go through the trouble to paint it more red with a white raven. The only other aircraft Jasta 18 had at the time were Albatros DV's and Pfalz DIIIa's. If his was the only triplane, he wouldn't have had to distinguish it from any other. Right? unless there was a second triplane. Then he would have had to paint his differently. There is a photo in the same book on page 159 of a Jasta 18 line-up. The first plane is Raben's Dr.1 479/17. The red streching past the cockpit but no white raven. It appears to be black (possibly). So I think there were at least two Dr.1's in Jasta 18 after the change over with Jasta 15 in March 1918. Maybe the one Ltn. Kunster was sitting in was a reserve aircraft for Balloon duty. The photo does appear to be taken in a hanger. This has been bugging me for some time. There has been so much dissagreement over this issue over the years but nobody has ever mentioned the different paint schemes in these Jasta 18 photos. Both photos being in the same book. Jeez was I trying to write a book with this thread. Where the hell did that come from????? Anyway, Jasta 18 Fokker DVII's coming up soon. Thanks guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deep 5 Posted September 15, 2009 Very cool... thanks quack! Interesting tome also... where else would you find such a discussion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 15, 2009 ...I've noticed, in Paul Leaman's "Fokker Dr.1 Triplane" on page 174 top left there is a photo of Ltn. Hans Kunster of Jasta 18 in a Dr.1... Long story short...That "Dr.I" is actually a Fokker D.VII. There are quite a few caption errors in Leaman's otherwise excellent Triplane book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 15, 2009 If you look at photos of a Fokker DVII, you'll see the trailing edge of the upper wing goes straight across from starboard side to port side with the only indentation being over the cockpit. The ailerons are flush with the trailing edge as well. The photo in question shows an upper wing with the port side aileron curving out and away from the trailing edge of the main wing, as does a DR.1. Considering the time of the photo, post march 1918, Jasta 18 at first had Albatros DVa's and Pfalz DIIIa's on strength. Along with one (or two) Fokker Dr.1. Then in mid to late 1918 (not sure of the date) Jasta 18 aquired some Fokker DVII's. So Jasta 18 did operate a mixed bunch of planes. But the only one out of the bunch that has this upper wing design was the Fokker Dr.1. That is why I think that the photo is that of a Fokker Dr.1. I must admit at first I too thought it was a DVII. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Hi again, Quack. Can't get my scanner to work, so I've had to photograph these. Here's the picture in question. Note the top wing. Here's a photo (Took me bloody ages to find!) taken from almost the same angle, of Fritz Jacobsen of Jasta 73, standing in front of a Fokker D.VII. This photo appears on page 44 of the Albatros Productions book, 'Fokker D.VII. Anthology 3'. Compare the top wing with the one in the Kustner pic. Note the similar proximity of the wing to the fuselage. Dr.I top wings were much higher in comparison. Then there's the 'D' shape centre section cut-out that both wings have...Also, I think from the angle the photo was taken, you would see at least a little bit of the middle wing if Kustner was sitting in a Triplane. Incidentally, one other thing that confirms the top photo as a D.VII is the tubular rod like device attached to the centre section cut-out. That's a long barrelled flare gun...A feature seen on quite a few Jasta 18 D.VII's. Not something you'd ever see on a Triplane. Edited September 16, 2009 by Southside Bucky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 15, 2009 Wow I think you got me on that one. It seemed to me that the curve of ,what I believed to be, the aileron of a Dr.1 was off the port side and not at the center of the wing like the DVII. Also that curve seemed to big and deep to be a DVII from that angle. Other photos show it a bit smaller. As far as the hight of the wing I agree It probably would be higher if it were a Dr.1. But the photo is a bit blurred and from the angle is hard to tell. And the middle wing trailing edge started out from the fuselage about were the ammo feed came out of the fuselage and curved away. So the middle wing wouldn't be visible from that angle either. But since you have showed me the DVII photo to compair, I think I'm leaning towards the photo being a DVII. Wow good thread. Thanks bucky Good stuff man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 16, 2009 Well all the Jasta 18 DVII's and one DH-4 are done and posted in the download section. If there are any mistakes with any of the skins or pilots names, that anyone knows about, please let me know. I would like for them to be as accurate as possible. Thanks for the help Saltfiskur and Southside bucky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 16, 2009 Stunning, Quack!...A terrific set, with excellent research and attention to detail...Very well done mate! I'm still kinda curious where you found some of the schemes...Was it online somewhere? Ever seen this one? Pilot unknown. Fuselage and fin/rudder border colour unknown (light blue?). Note the tail stripes. Thanks again for a great contribution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) First off thanks again for the compliments bucky. And no I have not seen that photo before. Very cool, I love to see new photos. That one is pretty unique too. Possible blue would look nice. Too bad I didnt see this one before I put out the 10 pack. Could have been an 11 pack . I'll add it into an edit. Thanks again. That light shade of grey is a lot of times a green too. Just like Jasta 5. Hmmmmm. Light blue would look better then green anyway. As far as where I found these profiles, mostly on the internet. And some written descriptions as well. I dont have any DVII books yet, but I've seen a couple in book stores near me. Took a free peak inside . Saltfiskur sent me a couple of pics that helped me clean up a couple I had already done. There are a few other pilots I know about but dont know what their planes looked like. Edited September 16, 2009 by quack74 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 16, 2009 ...That light shade of grey is a lot of times a green too. Just like Jasta 5. Hmmmmm. Light blue would look better then green anyway... Yeah, I've seen it portrayed in a colour profile with the border stripes in light green, but that was obviously conjectural. Light or medium blue would be just as valid, so go for it! Incidentally, I found another picture of Kustner. Wanna see it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 16, 2009 Silly question...Of course you wanna see it! Ltn. Heinz Kustner, looking pretty damn cool in a captured English flying coat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 16, 2009 Yeah, I've seen it portrayed in a colour profile with the border stripes in light green, but that was obviously conjectural. Light or medium blue would be just as valid, so go for it! Incidentally, I found another picture of Kustner. Wanna see it? Ofcourse I do! I love new pics. As far as that DVII pic, I'll try it with blue and green. Then we'll see what looks better. I also have to do a Pfalz DIII in Jasta 18 colors by the way. It should be a DIIIa but we only have a DIII. The guns are above the fuselage so it's almost a DIIIa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted September 16, 2009 Man, that close up of Kustner has the best close up of a Jasta 18 raven. I wish I had that photo before so I could scan that raven and use it on my DVII's. Oh well. I'll use it on my Pfalz DIII's and my other J18 Albatri. Thnks bucky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted September 16, 2009 When you decide to get a D.VII book or two,...or three... Do yourself a favour and get these first: http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/fokker-dvii-anthology-1-28-p.asp Not cheap when you add up the cost of all three, but the best D.VII books ever issued, no question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
