claims bummer

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

I think my biggest claims disappointment thus far just happened a little while ago. I was with two other Roland C.II and a trio of Fokker E.III providing escorts on an arty spot. when we reached the target we were attacked by 9 Airco DH2 from 24 Squadron. the battle started at 11,000 ft east of Lens and spiralled all the way down to the deck. during the course of that battle my observer and I managed to bring down at least four enemy machines (two of which were flown by Saundby and John Oliver Andrews). then after getting out of there alive, I headed back home and spotted a trio of Airco's beneath me as I started climbing up. I got above and behind them, then dove down at 180 mph on the trailing Airco and got him completely by surprise. made it back home and it wouldn't let me make any claims because my wingmen were dead. which is too bad, really, because the Fokker E.IIIs that were providing escort were with me the whole time!

 

ah, such is life... and death, in OFF

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I had a similar experience last night. It was the first time I was able to shoot down two aces (from Jasta 14) in one mission. Unfortunately, all of my sqaudmates were shot down, so the "goals failed" message displayed, and the manager would not let me make any claims for my kills! Bummer indeed.

 

All of the action took place over the front, so surely someone in the trenches must have seen my act of valor? Therefore, one of my wishes for P4 is the ability to name as a witness a ground observer and still occasionally get credit for the claim, instead of being refused by the manager to even allow you to submit one.

[Olham 164]

You can avoid that by regarding your wingmen as more valuable than your victories.

Bring them back alive with you - there is no greater success and joy!

 

And besides all the joy - they will be your witnesses!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Sound advice Olham. I follow that same course and I agree, it is a great feeling to bring them back alive.

 

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[von Baur 54]

Another argument for labels...so you can check who's left in your flight and not use a dead pilot as a witness. I actually used an observation balloon as a witness once and received confirmation. I included its location (if I recall, just west of Henin-Lietard) as well as a fairly detailed description of where it went down all based on Rabu's map, so that may have helped. I was also credited with a couple of planes shot down near my airfield after citing ground crews as my witnesses. However on my lastest pilot I tried using ground troops for a plane that went down near our lines and its companion that fell in nml and got the dreaded 'Claim is erroneous' warning. I switched it to my primary wingman even though he was nowhere to be seen and not only did the game accept my claims but both are now among my confirmed kills. Go figure.

 

*edit*

And, yes, keep those wingmen alive. Not just for confirmation, but for the feeling of knowing that you haven't lost anyone.

Edited September 15, 2010 by von Baur

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

You can avoid that by regarding your wingmen as more valuable than your victories.

Bring them back alive with you - there is no greater success and joy!

 

And besides all the joy - they will be your witnesses!

 

 

NINE Aircos diving from altitude on three Rolands and three Fokkers isn't very good odds. at the time I could only think of two options:

 

1. I could dive away and leave the three escorts to certain death with odds of 3-against-1 and completely inferior machines. we would have no escort for the rest of our flight... the Aircos would most certainly not allow us to do our range-finding duties over the target. the mission was a failure as soon as those Aircos showed up. they went straight after us and our escorts had no means of escape.

 

2. if we stayed to fight (and I did have hopes that my wingmen would be more aggressive) that would make the odds of our 6 against their 9. the Roland had more firepower and comparable speed when compared to the DH.2. if we got lucky we could destroy a large quantity of enemy machines and force them to flee. further I was pushing the flight towards friendly lines were flak could help us out.

 

3. we were east of Lens, so we could expect help from friendly anti-aircraft artillery as the fight descended. whether we chose to run away or fight, these guns would come to our aid eventually.

 

bottom line: I didn't want to abandon those three Fokker monoplanes. it seemed worse to me, at the time, to abandon those three pilots to their deaths when I had the power to stay and help them. I honestly felt that if we all stayed together and fought hard enough that we could have one with no losses. the Roland is superior to the Airco in most respects outside of turning battles. it made sense to stay and fight so that the Fokkers weren't lost.

 

of course, the loss of two pilots and two observers is probably worse than saving three friendly scout pilots! but I freely admit I wasn't thinking along those lines at the time. so next time perhaps I will try to save four lives instead of three.

 

I do have pilots where I go chasing after victories at the expense of everything else. but that's not what I was trying to do in this situation. the claims bummer is this: had this occurred in the real world I'm fairly sure that I could have gotten at least a few confirmed victories. after all, I had shot down 5 British fighters down in flames over German territory in the presence of my three assigned escort fighters.

 

a limitation of the game engine I guess. it could be worse. any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

[Olham 164]

Von Baur: ...got the dreaded 'Claim is erroneous' warning. I switched it to my primary wingman even though he was nowhere to be seen

and not only did the game accept my claims but both are now among my confirmed kills. Go figure.

 

Wingmen often get out of sight or crash land crippled crates, but are still alive (read the after-flight window, which would tell you, if someone

was wounded or is dead, or missing in action). When you see them on the rooster after the fligh, they made it - and can witness your kills.

 

Waldemar Kurtz: I did have hopes that my wingmen would be more aggressive.

 

When you enlist a new pilot and browse through the squadrons or Jasta there, you see for each squad their morale.

If you choose a high morale squad, the wingmen will be better - try it some day; it's a difference.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Olham

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Apparently, all of your wingmen do NOT need to surrvive in order to generate a claim form. In one of my last missions, my plane was shot up and I had to land at a friendly airfield. While on the airstrip, I paused to look around at the fight still going on above me. Unfortunately, just as I was about to hit escape to end the mission, my last wingmate got shot down and crashed. I was still presented with a claim form. Maybe he survived the crash?

 

 

[Olham 164]

HPW: ...my last wingmate got shot down and crashed. I was still presented with a claim form. Maybe he survived the crash?

Yes, they often get all shot down, but the OFF Manager rolls dice about their fate. Mostly they survive.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

It is a miracle! My wingmate indeed did survive, as he leapt out of his burning aircraft and luckily fell straight into a bale of hay that had been gathered in the field just adjacent to the airfield. Fortunately, he was only a couple of hundred feet off the ground and he survived with only a broken ankle and moderate burns to his hands.

[Olham 164]

Some have a VERY good guardian angel...

[SirMike1983 3]

Frustrating, but the situation in OFF still artificially favors the player nonetheless. As good as the AI has become in the game (and it's much better than the P1 and P2 AI), it still is very weak compared to a human opponent. Those of you who have flown online in head-to-head fighting against human pilots (in OFF or back in the RB2/3d days) know what I'm talking about. Human enemies are dynamic and unpredictable, and also often every bit as clever as you. AI, even good AI, is often predictable after you fly against it long enough. It often "locks on" too-- it will follow a single enemy even if tactically it would be wiser to quick swap to a new target. Humans do this quickly and efficiently often, while AI gets "locked" onto a target and can become a sitting duck.

 

I'm not saying OFF is "easy", but what I am saying is that we're not to the point in AI development, at least off the shelf commercially, where the AI is as good as a human pilot familiar with the game. So even if some of these claims are lost, it's still an advantageous trade for the player compared to flying against real people and having more claims available.

Edited September 16, 2010 by SirMike1983