Starting engines on Handley-Pages and Gothas

[JimAttrill]

Some of these large aircraft had their propellors a long way off the ground so how were the engines started?  I don't think hand-swinging was possible.  Did they have electric starters? 

[+Olham]

The Gotha's pusher props at least were low enough for the ground crew to reach them, as this original footage shows:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqq8qx5Jg80

Edited September 20, 2015 by Olham

[JimAttrill]

Very good video I haven't seen that before. 

 

I read somewhere on Google that the introduction of electric starters was in order to start engines on flying boats - but that was in the 20s. 

 

Another way was to put a strong bag with a rope attached over the top blade and get some guys to pull very hard. 

 

The Shuttleworth Collection start their Bristol F2b with a Hucks starter on (I think) a Model T Ford

[+RAF_Louvert]

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Jim, not sure about the HP O/100 but the O/400 had a compressed air starting system for the engines.

 

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[JimAttrill]

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Jim, not sure about the HP O/100 but the O/400 had a compressed air starting system for the engines.

 

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I have been reading everywhere about the RR Eagle engines but nowhere is there a mention of how they were started.  Do you have a URL or even a reference to one of your amazing books

[+RAF_Louvert]

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I'm not at home right now Jim so I don't have access to my library, but I can see about source material when I get back.

 

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[+RAF_Louvert]

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Jim, according to Bill Gunston's "World Encyclopedia of Aero Engines: From the Pioneers to the Present Day", the Rolls-Royce Eagle engines were fitted with starter motors that had a reduction ratio of 1:100.  Hand operated primer pumps allowed for the injection of fuel directly into the intake pipes, after which the ignition was switched on and the starter motor engaged until the engine caught.

 

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[JimAttrill]

So they were 'direct cranking' starters.  I know the Merlin had direct cranking gear but I always thought it was more for turning the engine for timing etc and not for actually starting the engine as it would be hard to get the required speed. 

 

I know the Gipsy Major engines had one mag that had a starting mechanism.  This would hold back the distributor arm until TDC and then fling the mag quickly to generate a spark to start.  Whether WWI mags had this I do not know.  Also all the piston engines I worked on had what they called a 'booster coil' which was a coil powered by a battery that generated lots of sparks when starting the engine.  To start a Bristol Hercules engine required two hands, one to switch on the mags and the other to operate the electric priming pump and the booster coil and the starter motor.   it required some dexterity!  (and was great fun, what with the smoke and flames and the noise of the exhaust and the clanking of the reduction gear). 

 

Doubtless starting large P&W or Wright engines was the same.  The Germans in WWII used inertia starters wound up by an erk or by an electric motor - a good system IMHO.  The Airacobra and the Harvard used a similar system. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by JimAttrill

[Hauksbee]

...an 'erk'?

[Typhoon]

An "ERK" was a low ranking enlisted man usually the junior man on the crew.

As an ERK I was required to go on the test flights on our C119's after an inspection.

Not a real pleasant experience. It was usually very noisy and boring,

except once when we lost an engine on takeoff, but it was still noisy.

All the rest of the crew went to the cafeteria for coffee.

[Hauksbee]

An "ERK" was a low ranking enlisted man usually the junior man on the crew.

As an ERK I was required to go on the test flights on our C119's after an inspection.

Not a real pleasant experience. It was usually very noisy and boring,

except once when we lost an engine on takeoff, but it was still noisy.

All the rest of the crew went to the cafeteria for coffee.

I'm not clear on how the story ends. The C-119 is taking off, it loses an engine, it's noisy,...the rest of the crew leaves for coffee? Leaving you on the plane? Something's missing where those three dots are.

[Typhoon]

OOPS!! I was on the plane for the test flight. The rest of the ground crew went for coffee, not the aircrew they managed to bring the plane down safely.

One person from each section that were involved in the inspection were required to go on the test flight. Just a local thing, there were about 8 of us "ERKS" 

on a plane for a test flight after an inspection

Sorry for the confusion

 

Tony

[JimAttrill]

It seems the origin of the work 'erk' is lost in the mists of time.  Some think that like a lot of other RAF slang it comes from the Navy.  The normal thought it that it is a corruption of AC (Aircraftman).  The original ranks were AC2 AC1 LAC (Leading Aircraftman with two-bladed prop on arm, then CPL etc. 

 

In my day it meant anyone below NCO rank.  Normally the downtrodden workers.  (Of which I was one for 5 years).