Lt. James Cater

The one thing i never am is blase when it comes to flak. I just found it weird to have all this 37-57-100mm flak being fired up at me and i never got hit. Below 1000 feet i've got torn up by 14.5 and 23mm stuff so i learned not to be down there too long without sufficient airspeed to lessen my exposure.

I'm actually amazed no one listed"A bridge too far". Until the "Saving Private Ryan" era of graphic realism this was THE combat film. Band of Brothers was awesome. 84 Charlie mopic was good. Hamburger hill was a sleeper but damn fine. I also like the Sharpe and Horatio Hornblower series. Patton has a few arguable moments, but George C. Scott did a masterful job.

SAMs are something i'm going to start a thread about in the future. Personally, i deal with them in the classic fashion since going too low might get you zapped depending on where you are. About the only sure place that i know where you can get right down in the weeds without drawing fire is the east side of Thud ridge. That is absolutly, THE safest approach to targets in Hanoi itself. I've never done the west side since the other gives you a longer covered approach. You know, we ought to get a thread started about safe/hazardous/dangerous/ areas and routes over the North.

Those older guns were used quite effectivly by the North Vietnamese. Something in the neighborhood of 90% of F-105 combat losses were due to flak. Personally, i avoid the worst of flak by making my minimum altitude at 10000ft. While on my bomb run i try not to dive in lower than 3-4000ft if i can. Since i usually go lower (depends on the target) I get the nose up and into burner as fast as i can. Terrain i like for breaking the lock of gun and SAM radars. Thud ridge is great for that, and one hill i call "SAM knoll" (due west of Hanoi, past the airfields) has help me dodge SAMs countless times. All in all, my squadron is getting decimated by SAMs. Of our 6 losses in 23 missions, 5 have been to SAMS and one to a 23mm gun.

Flak over North Vietnam was the #1 killer of aircraft hands down. I've read a number of books by former pilots, and to a man, they were in awe of the volume of AAA fire. Migs they didn't worry about all that much, and SAMS could be avoided. But almost everyone dreaded the "golden BB" that had their name on it. I remember getting shot down in a classic manner. While dodging two SAMs, i got too low and was begining to climb when a 14.5mm gun flamed my Thud and that was all she wrote. I was at about 1890ft when i was hit, bottoming out of a split S. I don't take any chances with flak. If it gets close, i jink like hell!

I read about the shootdown in your diary, Forlorn. At least you had the luck of being over the water when you ejected. One thing i did yesterday after attacking(and missing) the Dragon's jaw was to check out the defences in the area. While my flight of Thuds was heading back to Korat, i was watching an Navy A-4 that was doing flak supression in the vicinity of the target. The plane was going in on a strafing run and i paused it just as it lost it's rudder to ground fire. I then checked out every gun and SAM in the area and was shocked by just how many 14.5 and 23mm guns there were. I mean, they were everywhere! As well as plentiful 57mm and a good number of 100mm guns too. There were also 2 SAM sites, but the small guns are the real killer down below. This led me to the conclusion that ANYONE who spends too much time on the deck is living on borrowed time. PS-The A-4 went down soon after. The element leader had been shot down earlier

Considering just how bad the triple A was in Pack 6 , i was amazed to have made it out of a few situations. It's not just like i fly straight and level. I jink like hell and vary my altitude by up to 2000ft sometimes when i know i'm locked. It's just that i've had multiple burst go off so close i thought a SAM got me and yet i made it out in one piece when by all rights i should have been a goner.

A very good book is "When Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasimus. He was a Thud driver during the period of their worst losses and i recommend it to any interested in combat aviation. I remember trying to hit an airfield during an early morning strike and since i took a more direct route, went faster and higher than the other flights, my flight came in rather early and we got all the attention from the defenses. I remember feeling sort of slick cause i dodged a SAM, only to have it blow away my wingman and make me realize that the one i dodged WASN'T the one that was coming for me. We didn't make it to the target area until after everyone else came in, bombed, and were on the way out. Needless to say, i missed the target.

One thing i would like to add... Keep your exposure to enemy defenses to the minimal time posible! Get in and out by the safest way even if you have to take a roundabout path. For example, trying to take out targets in the Hanoi area will always (especially the Paul Doumer bridge) result in large numbers of SAMs fired at your planes. I always take a route to the northwest, swing east, then head south on the eastern side of Thud ridge as low and fast as i can. The egress route is to the nearest hills to the west after i get back to about 10-12000ft.