Lt. James Cater

That Harrier would be a pain to spot from altitude!

I'm glad you enjoy the game. It has it's flaws of course. but it is really playable compared to some of the other stuff out there!

I can't wait until i'm able to fly again!

Personally, i've never even gotten close to getting a Mig in my sights. Whenever they have been around it's been on vectors that weren't the greatest for an intercept considering the speed and direction we were going at. When in doubt, dropping the nose and hitting the burner does wonders for getting away from MIGs

On your briefing map you can move the waypoints. I agree, the usual waypoints are usually placed in near suicidal areas. Though granted, in reality the Washington types usually did all they can to ensure planes and pilots being shot down. :(

I've done something similar during a practice mission in an F-4. I locked a Sparrow onto a Mig-21 that was chasing a Thud. Guess which plane the Sparrow hit and shot down?

Sparrow technique in a nutshell!

I disagree, to an extent. Heading for the deck is an easy way to avoid SAMs but you are living on borrowed time the longer you stay there. Low level AAA is ferocius in some area and it WILL shoot you down. Believe me, anything under 2000 ft in certain areas is going to attract a lot of 14.5 and 23mm fire. If you go down there you better climb as quickly as possible after breaking lock. Knowing where and how far away a SAM site is away from you is key for survival. If you know where they are coming from you can actually have quite some time to manuver before they arrive. If you can get them at 12 o clock, dive hard and when they are close, pull up hard and roll the aircraft. SAMs can't make that manuver!

Something i'm curious about. In all the missions i've flown Migs were just about the last thing on my mind. If they were in the air i just wanted to know how far away they were and at what angle towards my flight. I never one had a Mig threaten a mission with direct fire. I had to change direction and altitude a bit but that was all. The number one defense i found was speed. Either i go low and fast or i just increased speed by about 25-50 knots, that was all i needed. I really do need to know a few things..... 1-Can a Mig 21 at say, 15000 ft convert on a Thud going all out down in the weeds? Since my usual route to Hanoi area targets involve going up past Yen Bai and zipping down along Thud ridge, i am always wondering weather a 21 can do a split S and catch me. I have always doubted it, but you never know. and 2-MIG 19. Rare bird be in Pack 6, but can be a nasty surprise. I don't know a damn thing about it's performance except that it is something like an F-100 but with more manuverable. Can anyone give me some positive intel? I'll probaly think of a few more things in a while but thats all for now

The one thing the Thud had that was a lifesaver in real life was speed. As i mentioned before in another thread the fastest, i have ever gone was 705 knots at about 500 feet while outbound from a strike in Hanoi. No other aircraft in the world at that time( or some these days) was going to catch a Thud doing high speed at low levels. In WOV, i've had MIG-17s trying to intercept my flight on more than a few occasions. Perhaps my choice of ingress routes and speed have made a difference. Once the bombs are gone it's usually a hell bent dash until the Red river is crossed and perhaps they couldn't make an intercept. In my opinion, the best place to have a MIG is several miles away. PS- please excuse the typos from my earlier post. I couldn't go back and edit it.

Isn't it something to be killed quickly while flying in roles that actually lessen your chances of exposure to enemy fire?

ECM pods becaom availabe in WOV at the apropriate time more or less. when you are flying a campaign they will one day show up for your loadout.

Damn, thats too bad . I've always had hope to be able to engage in battle but it looks like thats unlikely one i get back into action. What a bummer!!!!

I have to admit to never doing a campaign with the F-8. I'm primarily a USAF Thud driver. However, i have used the Crusader in practice setups and i really have grown fond of it. For your info, just every gun kill i've gotten was within 7-8 o clock high or low. I always try as much as possible for the closest i can get for the classic 0 degree shot off the tail.

That's wahat i remember also. Everything is atoumatic but you have to remember to hit the proper buttons on the screen

Speed is life as far as Thuds are concerned. Mig threat? If at all possible go full throttle and drop the nose. No fighter on earth is going to catch a high speed Thud at low level. Now that i think of it, my own personal speed record is 705 knots at about 500ft whilest getting the hell out of the Hanoi area. Yep, there were a whole lot of disappointed Gomers way behind us that day!

Something i was just wondering about. I'm on my third campaign flying Thuds and one thing i really noticed is despite sometimes very heavy flak at altitude, neither my squadronmates nor i have ever been hit by it. Down in the weeds it's another story. The 14.5 mm guns in particular, are my bane and have led to me all but abandoning low level time. I've also been nailed by a SAM while coming off a target so i know they can get me. But Flak? Never a scratch. Anyone else as "lucky" Or is it just a bug?

In 2 1/2 tours of WOV, i've never seen a Thud do CAP or escort. It wasn't designed nor deployed for those tasks. They did kill Migs, but that was more or less a case of self protection. Using them as dedicated air superiority aircraft will ensure a rather swift demise if the Mig driver is past the "new guy" stage. Take an aircraft rigged for air to air over Pack 6 and what will it do if no Migs come up? Attract AAA and SAMs that's all. You have to get the bombs on the target, full stop! So far in my experiences, Migs have been pretty much harmless. It's the SAMS and triple A that have done me in a few times as well as my fellow squadron mates. Not to be too harsh on "shoot down the foe" types, they have their role. It's just that everyone in existence seemingly wants to roam around looking for the kill while someone else makes their way into the teeth of enemy defenses to blow something up. If you really want to raise the hairs on your head, try reading "When Thunder Rolled" by Ed Rasmius and "Thud Ridge" by Jack Broughton. You can also try Tom Wilsons' trilogy.

Check out Fubars' video. It was the final thing that convinced me (along with everyone elses comments.) When i return to combat i will be a lot more respecful of high altitude AAA. I've never been hit by it, but whay take a chance?

Aaah! Thanks for the tip. Perhaps this might work...Me and my wingman using a standard load while everyone else is loaded up with CBUs or Napalm and have no 20mm ammo. That just might be able to get them to attack ground targets without strafing.

WOW! That was some hit! Now that i think about it, my evasive manuvering sometimes could get pretty wild.

I just wish i'd be able to find away to get my whole force dropping bombs other than just me and my wingman. It would save a lot of headaches on certain targets. Anyone know of any patches for that?

Judging from all the replies i must have been ordinarily lucky not to have been hit by flak at altitude. I always found it a bit weird to have a burst go off so close to the cockpit that i was actually flinching at the controls but still be untouched! Knock on wood?

The F-8 has one real advantage over a Phantom. When you miss with all your missles at least you have guns to keep trying with!

The one thing i can always get froma hairy target is a racing pulse. Let's face it, no CAP is going to equal the stress and intensity of having a strike mission up in Pack-6. Once you cross the Red river you know that it's on and it's going to being nonstop until you get back to the hills (or feet wet for you Navy pukes) . For me at least, swinging wide of Ben Yai and making for the north end of Thud ridge really gives you something to think about. You can look out over North Vietnam for quite a ways and see exactly what kind of jam you are getting yourself into. That's my usual approach for Thai Nguyen and Hanoi and you can best believe that my heart is racing when i go full throttle and head for the deck knowing what kind of defenses are ready and waiting. Doing CAP? Not quite the same rush.