Nicholas Bell

Good advice, Charles - I'll check the typing. If that's not it maybe I'll try combining target areas to see if I can work around the potential coding/memory issue. Having done some volunteer work for HPS Simulations I know enough to understand why there are limitations.

Nele, I thoroughly enjoy your analysis of what you're doing "behind the scenes" in the sim and how it relates to real world aircraft performance. Looking forward to all your FM mods.

Sorry for the delay in getting this mod posted - I'm at my wits end. Day 4 of banging my head in frustration. I decided I would of course test the package on a clean install of NATO Fighters, and now I've got nothing but problems. Hoping someone wise can help. Here's the situation: 1. If I load HAWK objects and revised terrain files, but do not add the HAWK missile in the weapondata.ini - everything works except there are no missiles. That is, the HAWK missile object does not appear on the launcher. This is the expected result. 2. If I add the HAWK missile in the weapondata.ini (and save it of course in the weapon editor) the program crashes when the scenario starts (100% load). This occurs if I create a new mission or used one the missions I made to place the HAWK units. So, there must be something wrong with how I am adding the HAWK to the weapondata - or so it would seem. But NOT so! If I load one of the canned missions included in the sim - everything works fine. Not only that - if I create a new mission or load one of my missions mentioned in item#2 AFTER I play the canned mission - everything works! HAWKS galore. So something is being "set" by playing a canned mission which allows the HAWK missiles to appear and work. I'm not missing any files directly related to the HAWK stuff or it would never appear. What else is there? Any ideas? FWIW, before I decided to package it up it was working great without any complications and it was nice to see NATO SAM action.

As is everything in this sim...

Lexx, I think the lack of "packaging" for your modifications is a major limitation for users. And while I understand why this is not always easy or possible, asking most people to start hand editing files is asking too much. Easy as it might seem to you or I. OTOH, even though I'm perfectly willing and able to edit ini files, I've had more failures than success in attempting to integrate your modifications. This is obviously my problem, but you see my point? Your insight and work is brilliant. "Joe User" like me just need it to be more accessible.

Care to share them with me? If it's good enough for USAFMTL, it's worthy of using. Seriously, I'm interested - you might have a better looking environment than I do.

Thanks Fubar - I'm using the same .ini limiting the yaw to plus/minus 30 degrees the launcher orientation. I have the battery's 6 launchers spread out and pointing to about 315, 20, 90, 90, 160, 225. Since there are 2 HIPIR's, launching 2 missiles is normal. I see 3 launches simultaneously only very rarely (which I can rationalize as ripple fire). So all in all I think it's working pretty good. Once I get this mod posted and folks observe and share their experiences, I can tweak as required. I've also modified the radar and weapon data to more accurately reflect actual capabilities of IHAWK (post -1972). I will need to figure out a way to also have the early HAWK available (which had shorter range).

Pap, The battery layout I am using is preventing this most of the time by having the launchers orientated in 45 degrees increments. I do still see a 2 missile firing on occasion, but it does not bother me. It's just the TCO going nuts doing a ripple fire instead of "shoot-look-shoot" I've fixed my problem with units not appearing - headspace and timing on my part. I will post the modified map as-is with just the HAWK units for review and comment, while continuing to work on adding the Nike-Herc sites and the other modifications I want to do for the next release. Hopefully I can do this initial version this weekend if my wife doesn't have all my time scheduled out for me...

My opinion about this as an ex-HAWKer - pure propaganda BS. Not the first time the disinformation has been used to create an image of something that doesn't exist. Mostly for home consumption. I've seen the "photos" purported to show them, and for starters, they appear to be too small. Even if they were full-size, you have any idea of how much a HAWK missile weighs? There are other technical reasons regarding the radars which make it stupid. And to top it off, there are air-to-air missiles available on the market (which they have access to) which out perform the HAWK. Heck, we were looking at replacing the HAWK missile with old SPARROWS! They had near the same range, better ECCM, were light and easy to handle (definitely not the HAWK!), and we could triple the ammo basic load. For a country which claims to be making most of it's own military hardware, from MBTs, to guns, to anti-tank and anti-ship missiles, the notion that they would use 20-30 year old HAWK missile (well past their shelf-life) is lunacy.

Pap, Great minds think alike - this is exactly what I am doing. However, I've run into the problem I mention above which may be related to the fact I've added too many objects to the map. Ah, Crete - I never got there while I was stationed in Germany, as I was tied down my position as S-4 at battalion (6/52 ADA in Wuerzburg). OTOH while stationed at Fort Bliss I was able to participate in interesting exercises at While Sands Missile Range and also made 2 trips to Nellis AFB in Nevada to participate in Red Flag exercises with the USAF. Now those were a simheads dream come true! But hardly living a vacation like you - heck people pay good money just to vacation in Greece. A to think you were being paid to sit on some mountain top with a grand beautiful view.

Thanks, Wrench! I've run into a big problem with the units not appearing - looks like a memory problem to me. (I've got 2 GB RAM and a 512 MB Geforce 7950, so I'm confident it's a program limitation, not my system) They are on the map and are visible in total in KMD, but are not consistently visible in the sim. As I mentioned early only half the unit was appearing. Now that I've added more batteries, even less of the unit is appearing. The 50 some target areas have bumped the GERMANYCE_TARGETS.INI file to a megabyte. Not sure if it's a matter of the 384 target areas or the total number of objects on the map which is causing the problem. If it's a matter of total target areas I will integrate batteries into existing target areas. If it's an issue with the total object count I can eliminate launchers (2 per section instead of 3) or drop each "battery" location down to just one section. Still want to get the Nike units on the map - and they have quite a few objects.... Was hoping on being able to release this next weekend, but this problem is going to shoot down my plans. I'm bummed....

I've got more ideas than time or ability... but if I had more of both: Hot points for potential war: 1948 Berlin Crisis 1950-3 Korea spills over into Europe 1956 Hungarian Revolt (amplifying Gepard's version included in his terrain package)

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...ode=sst&id=4514 File Name: Squadron EditorFile Submitter: Nicholas Bell File Submitted: 14 Apr 2007 File Category: Utilities/Editors Squadron Editor version 0.5 For Campaigns in Third Wire Series Flight Simulators: Strike Fighters, Wings over Vietnam, Wings over Europe, First Eagles You can edit the following for AI Pilots only: Pilot Names Rank Air and Ground Kills Missions Pilot Characteristics (Skill, Experience, Morale and Condition) Pilot Status (Active, WIA, MIA, POW, KIA) You can also change the: Current Date Number of Available Aircraft Squadron Supply Level You must have MS Excel 2000 or newer installed to use this editor. Please read the Readme file included for complete instructions. Click here to download this file

Glad to see you back, Bort.

Thanks, Wrench. I'll check out the WW2 stuff. Appreciate the offer on the Nike setup. And I will use your 90mm gun - eventually. I believe they were phased out in the late 50s. But since I'm contemplating campaigns 1948-56 that will be useful. Wondering if I can create new standard object types (like AAA, SAMRadar, etc) in the TYPES.ini which the program will do it's random type placement thing. I recall reading somewhere that the are some issues with this. I'd like to create new ones for MANPADS and Heavy AAA.

Hi Pap - better you firing over your own head than me! 3 HAWK guys in one folder - this is getting to be a regular Air Defense hangout. Now if only we could some folks from Europe who were on "the other side" to help fill in the gaps.... Have placed another dozen HAWK batteries, but am running into odd stuff with some units missing a firing section. At least the problem is dividing the unit realistically - I just don't know where the other half is! And all I'm doing is cutting and pasting. weird... WpnSgt has graciously permitted me to use his Nike-Herc objects from the OTC campaign, so I will be adding them in too. Pasko has also ok'ed me using his objects, so this may eventually get a bit more thorough than I though. I've done some testing with just the forward HAWK belt in and it is "interesting" to say the least if you are a Red Flyer In case anyone knows - is there a Bofors 40mm L60 or L70 object available? They are missing too from the NATO setup. As are Redeyes, which I can manage to make using the SA-7.

Status report: I've managed to place 33 HAWK batteries so far on the GermanyCE map from Kiel to Munich. There were over 100 batteries, but given the scaled down map, and to simulate batteries not in operation (relocating or equipment down) I am thinking around 60-70 total. Have to do the 2nd layer of the belt, then do the 3rd later of units covering the theatre assets in the rear. Very tedious and slow work! My hats off to those who have populated detailed campaign maps with objects.

Actually the rotation limit is accurate - we would never fire over the battery anyway. This setup covers about 270 degrees because of the orientation of the launchers. I can spread the fan out - in effect creating 360 coverage, although I'm not sure the game limitation of not covering 360 degrees is a bad thing. In real life, if an attack came from the "rear" we would be in trouble. USMC Hawker's comment on the PTL is valid - the PTL of this layout is 90 degrees. We could have other standard layouts for 45 and 135 degrees for example. Of course the answer to the real life problem was to create defense in depth where batteries would cover others rear areas. No different than having a wingman really. This was done at the battalion and brigade level, so the "belt" was fairly thick. Behind that were the Nike Hercs - later Patriots, to further cover our rear (while covering the theatre assets) Hope to get some work done on placing these HAWK batteries on the map this weekend.

I envy you guys who have such deep understanding of how to make and alter this simulated world we enjoy. Effects, 3D models, skins, maps, terrain tiles, FM's...it just boggles my mind. It isn't much but, but here is something I do understand a bit about: Here is an optimal US Army HAWK full battery layout up to the mid 80s when the PAR and BCC/ICC were phased out in favor of 2 AFP's (Assault Fire Platoons) per battery. These used the ICWAR (Improved Continuous Wave Acquisition Radar) for which there is no model in the sim. Please note that what is currently called a CWAR in the HAWK object add-ons is mislabed - it is really the PAR (Pulse Acquisition Radar). Also, the ROR (Range Order Radar - used to obtain ranging information when the HIPIR lost it due to ECM) is not represented in the sim. Nor is there a need given how the sim works. The "down range" equipment (Firing Sections of 1 HIPIR and 3 Launchers) are about 80-110 meters apart. It's amazing how this conversation has brought back so many memories I have not thought about for almost 20 years! [TargetArea###] Name=HAWK Battery Position=XXXXXX.000,YYYYYY.000 Radius=700.000 ActiveYear=0 Location=1 Alignment=FRIENDLY Target[001].Type=HAWK_HIPIR Target[001].Offset=70.000,70.000 Target[001].Heading=90 Target[002].Type=HAWKL Target[002].Offset=70.000,170.000 Target[002].Heading=0 Target[003].Type=HAWKL Target[003].Offset=140.000,140.000 Target[003].Heading=45 Target[004].Type=HAWKL Target[004].Offset=170.000,70.000 Target[004].Heading=90 Target[005].Type=HAWK_CWAR Target[005].Offset=-50.0,50.0 Target[005].Heading=180 Target[006].Type=USTruck Target[006].Offset=000.00,000.00 Target[006].Heading=90 Target[007].Type=USTruck Target[007].Offset=000.00,005.00 Target[007].Heading=90 Target[008].Type=HAWK_HIPIR Target[008].Offset=70.000,-70.000 Target[008].Heading=90 Target[009].Type=HAWKL Target[009].Offset=170.000,-70.000 Target[009].Heading=90 Target[010].Type=HAWKL Target[010].Offset=140.000,-140.000 Target[010].Heading=135 Target[011].Type=HAWKL Target[011].Offset=70.000,-170.000 Target[011].Heading=180

Oooh, yes! That doesn't look at all the like the LargeSAMTrailEffect.ini I am using. Can you provide your .ini edit pretty please? The LargeMissileFireEffect.ini as shown here could use your touch, too(hey, it can't hurt to ask:biggrin:). The spiral effect doesn't create the solid flame as can be seen in the actual launch photo.

I don't know if it will stop the problem, but be sure to edit the HAWK missile to enable TOJ. Perhaps not losing lock will stop the self-destruct. It was our ace up the sleeve. Jam us, please - then we don't need to maintain lock. (note to self - remember to blink ECM when flying <G>)

I want my missiles exhaust to look like this If you can imagine a huge blowtorch you're close to what it's like. Sounds like one too. Taken in 1983 at Ft Bliss McGregor Range. I enjoyed being outside rather than "in the van" so I let the junior TCO fire (it's a team effort in all aspects - the 16E Radar Operators have the most fun on the inside being able to hear "for real" target breakup on the doppler. Outside the 16D Missile Crewmen had fun too and where closer than this to the actual launch.) I fired 3 HAWKS @ $250,000 each during my career. Yikes! Note the thickness and color of the plume. HIPIR is pointed at the target drone which is farther away and lower to the horizon. TK's program does not simulate the actual missile path which is a parabola which reaches above the target and dives down without power at longer ranges. At 20KM or less it's pretty much a direct path. Most of our training was "simulated" which was pretty much like we do for fun, except the computer was connected directly to the equipment. so we didn't need a keyboard or joystick Plus one was being evaluated, which kind of takes away from the fun factor. The evaluators would always end the training run with a down the throat ASM to see if we were good enough to knock it down. I always said if I saw one of them in "real life" it was out the van door and into my trench! Never had to contemplate that for real. Only time I was close was when we loaded the planes (RDF) to invade Iran in the 80's - a little know fact. Grenada changed Reagan's priorities, thank goodness for that.

Three launchers per HIPIR in ADA. Finally making progress on my attempts and have been able to create a HAWK Battery target area which works - kind of. The fire rate is too low - this unit will not pass it's ARTEP . I fly a flight of 4 MiG-27s in a straight in at 12000 feet from 60 KM out only knock done 1 75% of the time. Once 2 MiGs were downed (out of about 8 runs). In this type of scenario at least 3 should fall all the time, and often all 4. (my major concern was the small basic load of missiles - 36, which could easily be fired off the first few hours of war - the 18 on the launchers would be gone within minutes during a major attack) The missile worked quite well "as advertised" it was the finicky radars and operator headspace which made me pull out what hair I had!

True. Also impacted by the "Enemy Skill Level" In attempting to make SAMs and AAA appear, I inadvertently "discovered" the Skill Level "Easy" - nothing shows up. Set to "Hard" equipment shows up (maybe variable? - have not really checked). "Normal" setting randomizes the amount of objects.

I'm still working on this - mostly catching up to where Wrench is in understanding how to get them on the map. I've managed to add them as generic SAMRadar, SAMLauncher, etc to existing Target Areas, but have been unable to reproduce what was done on the OTC Cuba map where the various SAMs are defined by type and setup in their own target area. Without this of course using the generic objects result the weapon types being decided by the program. I've added the specific pieces of HAWK equipment to the GERMANYCE_TYPES.ini file as was done in the OTC map, but must be missing another part or doing something wrong with what I have as I still cannot place the specific weapons where I want them. I want to depict the accurate HAWK forward, Nike-Herc rear configuration. Likewise for the Warsaw Pact forces with SA-2 and 3's farther east protecting fixed assets and the SA-6's forward covering maneuver units. Also pondering the possibility of adding mobile ADA systems to ground formations as opposed to where they are now as fixed assets. Chapparel and Vulcan's are divisional level assets and would not be found protecting airfields - unless they were being used by the division's own helicopter units.