Bandy

I agree with you on the multi-tasking role of some of the 2-seaters from a historical perspective on some missions. But from a game perspective, it might not work out quite so well all the time if they are that aggressive more often than not. I am not sure how the game decides on how a 2-seater will behave in a given situation/context/mission. Obviously primary and secondary roles will factor in as discussed. But if one encounters 2-seaters that should be on a bombing run, or observation mission, but instead turn and engage in a dogfight, then some element of the game is lost. Many of the stories I've read about WWI aerial engagements involved a lone observation aircraft being pounced upon, then having to run like h_ll with the observer taking up his defensive weapon. Not sure what percent of engagements were of this type in reality (or whether it changed over time as mentioned), but I think it was likely pretty common throughout the war. The thread was started because I noticed the German 2-seaters attacking all the time over 3-4 missions in a row. This may have been random chance, I'm not sure, but thought it weird enough to mention and see if others have had similar experiences.

Perhaps related (in my mind at least as balloons are essentially anchored ground targets) I mentioned this a long time ago in the 3rd Wire forum, I think the balloon missions are just way too easy and pose no challenge besides the defensive aircraft. In fact only the bravest of the brave (or the foolhardy, depending on your perspective) took on a balloon mission, and survived the surrounding ring of ack-ack batteries! Those gas bags were incredibly well protected on the German side by something the allied pilots nicknamed "flaming onions". Any chance this important (yet still missing) aspect of the game could be modded? What would it require, besides a 3d model of course...? I've never seen an image of one in any book, but then again, I've never really browsed deeply into early AA artillery...

No, they can all go into just the one install of FE. The read mes are generally very good, so you should have no problem. The various terrains (Flanders, Voegessen, Somme) are then available as choices within single mission creation (not a campaign). When starting a new campaign, the appropriate in game terrain will be automatically set for you.

Any chance that this could be packaged for the downloads section with a good readme? Some other people may miss this thread... ...besides, I've tried to follow the thread and do the twin-wing gun Lewis mod (in conjunction with the new cockpit skin), but have not gotten it to work for me for whatever reason :blush2:

Yes, this is a very nice skin! Thank you. Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but I imagine that the German pilots took delivery of their new buses, then proceeded to paint over the stock colours section by section, little by little, with their personalized design, and maybe with a few missions in between while the paint was drying... Is this the case? It would explain the appearance of some of the pictures of these aircraft, as the photo is documenting only a moment in the service life of the plane. Just a thought.

... and the tube sight is left hanging. I could be wrong, but the cockpit may be from the Camel, it looks very similar with the "squared off" front shape of the edge padding. I'll try those numbers out Alli-D, thanks! If anyone has tried my numbers out, you may notice that it hides those polys that poke-up out of the nose beside the MGs (see my images above...). They aren't supposed to be there I think.

I definitely will try them out, thanks! But I came very close to the same values after spending a bit of time in seemingly endless adjustments last night: Position=0.0,-0.25,0.765 Offset=0.0,-0.495,0.682 I found these work well with my TrackIR setup, and I ended up preferring to not reveal the hidden cockpit, as I find the sighting tube and windscreen get in the way too much. I'm not sure why both of you advocate the: Position=0.014 ... value since that is a shift in the x-axis, and I do not find the cockpit is out of centre, but that could just be my tired eyes... Oh, PS: what do the ViewAngle values change? I tried adjusting those by large values and really didn't see a difference, but again, TrackIR may negate a static view setting which I'm thinking these do...

OK, will give it a go when I get home. I re downloaded and installed the Snipe again before I posted above (in case the first install was bad), but I got the same view. What is hiding the "aim tube" and wind screen? HideExternalNodeName= ???

Once again, really glad we've got a creative group like the A-Team in our community. Thanks guys for the hard work. WRT to the Snipe, I thought for a while there was something wrong with the Snipe cockpit when viewed from the seat, so I searched. However, the AimAngle and cockpit Position fixes described above are not enough. I tried to reposition the cockpit in the manner discussed for other A/C in the recent post by Alligator Devil, and managed to get rid of those polygons to either side of the guns, but then I noticed that the cockpit view and the outside view have different elements present, or stuff missing. The SE5 style sight and windscreen are missing, the padded cockpit ring, etc. I tried to insert the correct sight into the Snipe INI code, but nada. Must be something hidden from view in the code, and only needs a small fix, but I can't figure it out... See for yourself:

I agree there are too many flamers in the game, and the crashes a bit too spectacular (but strangely fulfilling no?) but I bet when they did flame, all that dope on the fabric put on a good show...

These are great! Been waiting for a real zeppelin to come along, and this will be an amazing, long overdue, addition. Thank you, and don't delay!

Sorry Peter for missing your question, been busy with our kitchen renovation project the last few days. I'll look into what version of FM they are. Unless I've missed something the last couple of weeks, I think they are the latest but I could be wrong. EDIT: your FM's "updated Sept 11" oops, may have missed that update, I'll double check... As far as my memory serves, I've never seen "unattached" wing tips before, going back to Nov '06. RE: the "zombie" pilotless AI A/C, I like them occurring in game, in fact, it adds that bit of the unexpected which I crave. The zombies aren't flying actively, they just drift along in a lazy circle, much like I imagine A/C with a dead pilot might behave on occasion when he hasn't slumped over onto the stick.

Didn't want to start a new thread, but thought I would include these pics of "zombie" aircraft [NB: no pilot in these AI aircraft] since it may be related to the new FM's as well. I think this was brought up before, but am unsure of whether it was discussed much, if at all... This is not a case of mis-labeled pilot files (as in the Alb DVA thread), these AI-pilots were "killed" by other AI pilots, yet the airplanes kept flying, and flying, and flying... Not sure whether they could be "targeted" or not, I can't remember.

This thread reminded me of an incident I had flying an SE5 a while back. Since I have never seen any aileron lock-up like this before in the game, I took a screenie. I thought perhaps it was some new damage modeling Peter introduced, but now I'm wondering if it was an animation bug as mentioned... so I'll also look into the data.ini... PS: It wasn't a good day, but at least I made it home :blush2:

Congratulations on the release! And in time for the weekend!!!! You deserve every bit of praise... I'm off to BoBLand now, likely due for a few burtons though

Yes, thank you!!! It is very exciting news, though I'm going to contain myself and wait to implement it when the V0.6 comes out... edit: Oh, just saw you have a quick-update download as well. Very considerate, thanks again...

Sorry to be the harbinger here, but there was a post over at 3rdWire earlier this year where this was asked. TK said no way, there is already too much coverage... That said, would also like to pass on sincere thanks to Scrapper and Baltika for re-generating the interest in WWII...

Stumbled on this dual-core thread over at the 3rdWire forum, see here. Windows 2000 Launcher (download here) may provide some performance benefit for multi-core systems, since the SF game engine currently only runs single threaded (though TK says it likely will go multi-threaded in the future...). There is a version available for WinXP, but it is beta and from basic searching on the topic have found that the Win2000 version is recommended even for XP. So my question is, does anyone have any experience using it with any of the SF based games, and if so, is there an improvement? I have heard that other games are improved with the launcher, but just wanted to hear from anyone that may have tried it before I experiment with my day-job computer...

If anyone is interested, TK answered my question at the 3rd Wire forum:

And another layer of the onion is exposed... RE: the mistaken AlbD3 FM release, it was a killer AI experience... RE: Camel. From the little I've read on pilot's experiences flying the Camel, new pilots were afraid to even turn it around for fear of it spinning, and it required constant stick attention. I always thought (in my imagination, I am no pilot...) it would've handled in a very "sudden" fashion, kinda like when you fly any FE aircraft on speed x2 or x4... know what I mean? So I'm really looking forward to trying this new Camel out the way you describe it with "more movement". It is the toughest bird to land (with all its wings on) so far; best to use a straight approach. Not sure how many incorporate the "head-shake" mod [posted here], it really adds a lot to the cockpit experience, and certainly makes it tough to get an accurate shot!!!

Ok, found out what the laminated Dural bulkhead is composed of on the '109. As I thought, mostly aluminum but there is some interesting history behind it as well, see below if interested. Also explains why searching for Dural turns up very little google hits, it was an obsolete name well before it could appear in websites... But given that the 22mm thick bulkhead behind the 109's fuel tank and pilot is laminated and the alloy tougher than aluminum alone (see below), should the code for this type of armor be "ALUMINUM" or "STEEL" or something else in the '109 DATA INI? Is the code material "ALUMINUM" the same as dural in Strike Fighters? It is documented to be quite effective: ALSO, can different armor materials be incorporated within the same code for a single node? ie: armoring the pilot node requires coding for the bullet proof glass in front: >HasArmor=TRUE >ArmorMaterial=GLASS >Armorthickness=80 //then the steel plate on the seat behind and below him/her: >Armor=STEEL >Armorthickness=10 Even if you code it like this, I'm not sure how you could tell whether it was working correctly and not just using the first/second listed type of armor material? duralumin [see here] Duralumin (also called duraluminum, duraluminium or dural) is the name of one of the earliest types of age-hardenable aluminium alloys. The main alloying constituents are copper, manganese and magnesium. A commonly used modern equivalent of this alloy type is AA2024, which contains (in wt.%) 4.4% copper, 1.5% magnesium and 0.6% manganese. Typical yield strength is 450 MPa, with variations depending on the composition and temper[1]. It was developed by the German metallurgist Alfred Wilm at Dürener Metallwerke Aktien Gesellschaft. In 1903, Wilm discovered that after quenching, an aluminium alloy containing 4% Cu would slowly harden when left at room temperature for several days. Further improvements led to the introduction of Duralumin in 1909[2]. The name is today obsolete, and mainly used in popular science to describe the Al-Cu alloy system, or 2000 series as designated by the Aluminum Association. Its first use was rigid airship frames. Its composition and heat-treatment were a wartime secret. With this new rip-resistant mixture, duralumin quickly spread throughout the aircraft industry in the early 1930s, where it was well suited to the new monocoque construction techniques that were being introduced at the same time. Duralumin also is popular for use in precision tools such as levels because of its light weight and strength. duralumin (dʊrăl'yəmĭn, dyʊ–) , alloy of aluminum (over 90%) with copper (about 4%), magnesium (0.5%–1%), and manganese (less than l%). Before a final heat treatment the alloy is ductile and malleable; after heat treatment a reaction between the aluminum and magnesium produces increased hardness and tensile strength.

Thanks Peter, I know you mention that FMs are never finished in your eyes, and I understand that you are waiting to see what TK comes up with re: stalls/spins in the next release (to that I say when??? ), and this makes perfect sense. Are you thus anticipating re-vamping ALL the FE FM's all over again? If so, you have much dedication and deserve much thanks. :fans: Waiting for the new a/c behavior of course explains the relevant aspects of the previously posted Camel FM's, which I've found will not stall; the Camel keeps climbing with the airspeed in the low 30's (I think this was just Camel, not Camela, or 2F). It will be interesting to see how TK interprets the Camel and its idiosyncrasies ... You have worked in some really nice and quirky handling characteristics. Not sure if this would be of interest to you, but I witnessed an AI Dolphin in a near vertical orientation descending to an airfield at about 5 knots like a helicopter. It just hung there, then had a real bouncy landing. Bizarre. This last observation obviously is some strange landing effect that will not be encountered often, as I very rarely see AI actually land at their base after a mission, but may be symptomatic of something else and speak to you (since you speak that new language...). RE: damage modeling, what do you mean by "followed TK's way" [just curious that's all]. Rather than add structural factor to ALL those various control surfaces to avoid that one-shot-knock-off effect, as you mentioned would it be more parsimonious to reduce bullet effectiveness as an overall remedy? In any case, either approach might not work if control surfaces "falling off" are part of the critical hit category... Best regards...

The aerodrome link listed above mentions 2-3 Lewis guns on the scarf mount... Hey, now THAT would be really nice to see Now, I'm sure some of WWI prop-heads know this right off-the-cuff, BUT did they divide up the victories when the a/c has a crew of two??? I know when I flew the Salmson that my gunner downed some NME, but I can't for-the-life-of-me remember whether I got credit for them...

Not sure where I saw this site mentioned, I think here at CA, but there are about 170 links to posted a/c manuals, some original historic documents, some analysis reports of captured a/c. Most are excellent reading. See list here... Have a look at Part 1 of the Allied analysis of a captured Me 110. This report is so incredibly detailed, right down to the material used in the rivets, and sheet metal technique applied to the edges of the panels, that I doubt they missed anything. > p26 discusses the fuel tanks of the Me110. They HAD self-sealing tanks, though they appear to be about only 55% effective at sealing vs. 30 and 50 caliber bullets. > p175 discusses the cockpit. The canopy has only 1/8th inch thick plexiglass, no armor glass is mentioned. The pilot/gunner/navigator seats are only light metal alloy .040" thick. There is NO mention of any cockpit armor. > p193 Specifically mention no fire extinguishers in the 110. A report on the Me109 F [i know, I know, the E was flown in BoB...] mentions the following items: > The F model had self-sealing tanks [the few resources I found on the 109 E say they didn't because of range issues; self-sealing tanks are much heavier and there is a commitment loss in volume as well] with plywood support panels, therefore could be considered to have "wood" armor in SF. > The pilot seat has 8-10mm armor plates on the back and 4mm on "other areas" [the bottom?] There is 2.25" armor glass on the windshield, about 80mm thick. >In addition, on the F model there is a 7/8" thick laminated dural [aluminum???] bulkhead behind the pilot and gas tank, which appears to have been very effective at stopping .303 rounds, less so 50 cal, and 20mm not so much... I'm STILL trying to find that magical comprehensive reference for the 109 E, but IMHO I think the pilot seat armor should be implemented in the DATA INI for BoB. BUT how would one code for the armor-glass? Entering armor in the DATA INI requires that you state a material and aspect [ie: front, bottom, side, etc...], and I've only seen "steel" and "wood" used. Is there a list somewhere of appropriate materials??? Opinions sought after, more data/facts would be most welcome...

I'll have to give her a try based on that appraisal. I flew a campaign (or parts thereof) in a Salmson a looong while ago, and really had a good time maneuvering into firing positions for my gunner. He was a pretty good shot on occasion, for AI. Just too bad we can't fly as the gunner...